Anand,<br><br>I cannot follow what Kevin is saying here at all.<br><br>Let us take a look at the biochar study with respect to mustard green and other vegetables:<br><a href="http://www.lrrd.org/public-lrrd/proofs/lrrd2501/chha25008.htm" target="_blank">http://www.lrrd.org/public-lrrd/proofs/lrrd2501/chha25008.htm</a><br>
<br>Preston acknowledged in his Introduction the fact that biochar has an impact on soil pH.<br>He hides nothing:<br><br><i><span>Biochar is a
fine-grained porous substance that resembles charcoal produced by natural
burning.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt">
</span><span>However, biochar is produced by the combustion of
biomass under oxygen limited conditions at </span>high temperatures (from 600 to
1000 °C) in a gasifier. As most of the mineral matter in biomass is composed of
salts of K, Na and Ca, it has a strong alkaline reaction giving rise to a pH of
between 8 and 10 (Rodriguez et al 2009). Thus application of biochar as a soil
amender is especially appropriate in acid soils with a low content of organic
matter. Biochar is unlikely to have a major role as a fertilizer but, because of
its structure, it can be expected to increase water-holding capacity, and be a
good habitat for microbes and plant nutrients</i>.<br><br>A bit further he explains:<br><br><h4 style="margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:normal"><i>The soil
used in the experiment showed improvements as reflected in increased content of organic matter, nitrogen and
pH as a result of the addition of biochar.</i> </span></h4><br>Let us look at the ideal pH for growing mustard greens:<br><a href="http://www.heirloomseeds.com/sthrn-veg.htm" target="_blank">http://www.heirloomseeds.com/sthrn-veg.htm</a><br>
The pH for growing mustard greens varies between 5.5 and 7.5.<br>Some people suggest a pH between 6 and 7.<br>In any case, a number of 6 is still quite acceptable:<br><br>The starting pH of the soil in this experiment was 5.8.<br>
Where did Kevin get this number of 4.5?<br>How did he come up with this number?<br>What motivated him to come up with this number!!!<br><br>If an acceptable pH for mustard greens is 6.0,<br> and if the starting pH in this experiment was 5.8,<br>
how can Kevin be so sure that the entire positive effect of biochar can be summarized only in terms of pH?<br><br>Also Kevin has made mention several time of the biochar study Dr. Preston did with respect to cattle.<br>
Let us take a look at this study:<br><a href="http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd24/11/leng24199.htm">http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd24/11/leng24199.htm</a><br><br>The
study was conducted over a period of 98 days. The cattle fed biochar
gained 129 grams per day. The cattle without biochar gained 103 grams
per day. The difference between these two numbers is 26 grams (a little
over 25%).<br>
<br>At the end of the
study, the cattle with biochar gained 12.642 kgs, while the cattle
without biochar gained 10.094 kgs.<br><br>Preston did not claim that at
the end of the study the cattle with biochar were 25% heavier than the
cattle without biochar. He simply said that during this experiment the
cattle with biochar put on 25% more weight than the cattle without
biochar. The key concept here is <i>live weight gain</i> - a term used quite often in animal studies. This is what he reported: <font>"<i>Live weight gain was increased 25% by adding biochar to the diet DM..</i>"</font>
There is absolutely nothing misleading about the manner in which he
made such a claim, and his claim was consistent with all of the data
reported in the paper.<br>
<br>Also I have no reason to doubt the numbers he reported with respect
to enteric methane reduction (reductions up to 41%). If the cow produces less methane, one
might expect that DM feed
conversion would improve and that the cow would put on more weight.
These numbers with respect to methane reduction are truly amazing. <br><br>In his paper Dr. Preston did not attempt to deceived or mislead.<br>His science is good science, and it is grounded in over 50 years working with cattle.<br>
<br>Thanks.<br>Paul<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Kevin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net" target="_blank">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial">Dear Anand</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">The impressive yield improvement may have been due to
neither the minerals nor the biochar, but simply as a result of pH adjustment by
the ash content of the biochar. As I recall, the original "Control Soil" used in
the Preston Report had a pH in the range of about 4.5, while the "biochar soil"
with the maximum yield had a pH in the range of 7-7.5.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Best wishes,</font></div><span><font color="#888888">
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Kevin</font></div>
</font></span><blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px"><div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4"><b>From:</b>
<a title="adkarve@gmail.com" href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com" target="_blank">Anand Karve</a>
</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</a> </div>
</div><div><div><div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:53
PM</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] [biochar] First
report from Phnom Penh</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Dear Paul, Ron and others,</div>
<div> I was instrumental in the development of an urban biogas plant,
which does not use cattle dung but uses food waste as feedstock. One kg dry
weight of starch, sugar, cellulose, protein or any other kind of human food
produces about 1 kg biogas. My biogas plant could normally accept only
1gram (dry weight) food waste per litre capacity of digester. Our
experiments in which the biogas digester was filled with charcoal made it
possible to increase the quantity of food waste to three grams per litre,
with three times as much biogas becoming available from the same
plant. This worked for about three months and then the higher efficiency
was no longer available. It is a common observation, that a biogas plant works
better, if chemical fertilizers are added to the feedstock. I have been
thinking about this and it appears to me that it was the minerals in the
biochar, that were contributing to this phenomenon. After the organisms
in the biogas plant had consumed the minerals, the higher efficiency was no
longer available. <br>The same phenomenon might be
responsible for the higher yield in fields provided with biochar. </div>
<div>Yours</div>
<div>A.D.Karve<br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Paul Olivier <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">Kevin,<br><br>Thanks very much for your reflection. Toward
the end, you raise the interesting question: which is worth more, biochar as
a fuel or biochar as an agricultural product? Let me come down strongly in
favor of biochar as an agricultural product. At the end of the same
presentation, I ask the question: what is the value of biochar when cattle
put on 25% more weight than those in the control group, when enteric methane
emissions from the same cattle are reduced by 42%, when mustard greens grow
at a rate 400% faster than the control group, or when the same mustard
greens have 40% less fiber and 35% more protein? About 20 experiments were
carried put with rice hull biochar from my gasifiers, and all indicated much
higher plant and animal growth. How then do we put a value on biochar, when
current prices for biochar do not yet reflect this new reality? If we burn
biochar, all goes up in a puff of smoke. If we use biochar in agriculture,
we use a lot less feed and a lot less fertilizer for the same end result,
and the benefits stay with us a very long time.<br><br>We stand in urgent
need for a lot more biochar studies in a lot more agricultural settings.
What we are trying to do at the moment is to understand why biochar has such
a dramatic effect when used in agriculture. Yes, we can point to its pore
structure, to its surface area, to its cation and anion exchange capacities,
to its pH and to its water-holding capacity. But these elements alone do not
give a complete picture. Over 20 years ago, Japanese scientists were
pointing out how biochar promotes the growth of abuscular mycorrhizal fungi.
I have a strong suspicion that these scientists were leading us in the right
direction. So in some of the next biochar studies that Dr. Preston will
conduct, he will focus on how biochar promotes the growth of AM
fungi.<br><br>Thanks.<span><font color="#888888"><br>Paul</font></span>
<div>
<div><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Kevin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net" target="_blank">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><u></u>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial">Dear Paul</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Thanks very much for your very interesting slide
Presentation on your Stove, and the explanation of "Rice Hull Biochar and
Fuel Gas Production.Economics."</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Basically, 1 kg of free rice hulls yields $US 0.24
worth of pyrolysis gas for heating and 350 grams of Rice Hull Biochar
worth about $0.30 per kg, or say $ 0.10</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">A typical Vietnamese Family would consume about 1 MT
of Rice Hulls per year, producing pyrolysis gas for cooking, worth about
$240, and 350 kG of Biochar worth about $100, total $350 per year in the
value of cooking energy + biochar sales per year.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">If your #150 stove sold for $40, it could pay
for itself in less than 1/2 year, with sales of biochar alone, the value
of the pyrolysis gases for cooking would be the equivalent of about 1
bottle of LPG per month, ie, an additional $22 per month of "free money."
If the use of the pyrolysis gas displaced the need to purchase 1 bottle of
LPG per month, then total savings would be about $22 + $8 = $30 per
month, and the stove would be paid for in less than 2 months. This indeed
would be a very attractive money making investment for the
family.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">The method of financing the stoves that you propose
is very attractive to the Typical Family, where a Charcoal Merchant would
supply the stove to the Family, and they would pay for the stove with the
charcoal they produced.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">The above numbers indicate that, at $0.30 per
kG, the char production sells for $300 per MT.. If this
was the value of the char, when sold into the "Biochar market", what would
be the value of the char when sold into the "Charcoal Fuel
market"?, If the value of the char when sold into the "Biochar
Market" was greater than its value when sold into the Charcoal Fuel
Market, then it would get used as biochar, but if it had more value as
Charcoal fuel, it would be advantageous to the Family to sell it into the
fuel market.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">it looks like you have a very attractive Stove
Project!</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Best wishes for every
success!</font></div><span><font color="#888888">
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Kevin</font></div></font></span>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">
<div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4"><b>From:</b> <a title="paul.olivier@esrla.com" href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">Paul Olivier</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Discussion
of biomass cooking stoves</a> </div></div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Cc:</b> <a title="biochar@yahoogroups.com" href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">biochar@yahoogroups.com</a> ; <a title="adrian@rocketworks.org" href="mailto:adrian@rocketworks.org" target="_blank">adrian@rocketworks.org</a> ; <a title="sonta@emerging.se" href="mailto:sonta@emerging.se" target="_blank">sonta@emerging.se</a> ; <a title="Ruben@ace.co.ls" href="mailto:Ruben@ace.co.ls" target="_blank">Ruben@ace.co.ls</a> ; <a title="pkarve@arti-india.org" href="mailto:pkarve@arti-india.org" target="_blank">Priyadarshini
Karve</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 18, 2013 9:08
PM</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] [biochar]
First report from Phnom Penh</div>
<div><br></div>Kevin,<br><br>Biochar can have significant value even in
poor countries. For example, here in Dalat rice hull biochar is used
extensively as a soil amendment. If a poor household can produce
one kg of biochar per day and sell it at a fair market price, this will
cover the cost of the means to produce it in less than a year. A lot
more money has to be devoted to biochar research in a variety of
agricultural applications. Once farmers understand the value of biochar
with respect to the specific plants or animals they grow, there will be
a rush to produce it. The high-grade heat produced in making biochar can
be used for cooking, and as a by-product of biochar production, it
becomes available to the household free-of-charge. To waste this heat,
as some propose to do, is incredibly short-sighted. The sale of biochar
should be able to cover not only the cost of the biomass from which it
was derived, but in time it should also cover the means to produce it.
That is why I push hard against those who want to use biochar as a
fuel.<br><br>Let us suppose that a gasifier costs $50 US dollars. Let us
suppose that a household produces one kg of biochar per day at a value
of only $0.20 US per kg. This represents an income of about $6.00 US
dollars per month. In less than a year the cost of the gasifier is
covered.<br><br>Here in Vietnam LPG sells for about $22 US dollars per
bottle. Some households consume up to two bottles of LPG each month.
This works out to a monthly fuel cost of $44 US dollars. This reliance
on fossil fuels is killing and has to stop.<br><br><a href="https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/Paper/Presentations/Gasification.ppsx" target="_blank">https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/Paper/Presentations/Gasification.ppsx</a><br>
<br>Thanks.<br>Paul<br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Kevin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net" target="_blank">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><u></u>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial">Dear Ron</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Thanks for your very interesting report to date
on "The Big Event."</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">I think that one thing that could be very
helpful is a Graph showing " Stove Price" versus "Potential
Customers." Clearly, if a person is earning say $1 per day, and the
stove cost $70, this would be equivalent to 70 days income. Here in
Canada, where the minimum wage is $10 per hour, or $80 per day, a
stove costing 70 days income would cost $5,600.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Or, to look at it from the other direction,
"What price would a stove have to sell for, so that 90% of the World's
Population could afford to buy it"</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Thanks!</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Kevin</font></div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">
<div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4"><b>From:</b> <a title="rongretlarson@comcast.net" href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Discussion of biomass</a> ; <a title="biochar@yahoogroups.com" href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">biochar</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Cc:</b> <a title="pkarve@arti-india.org" href="mailto:pkarve@arti-india.org" target="_blank">Priyadarshini Karve</a> ; <a title="psanders@ilstu.edu" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">,"paul anderson</a> ;
<a title="crispinpigott@gmail.com" href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com" target="_blank">Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott</a> ; <a title="Ruben@ace.co.ls" href="mailto:Ruben@ace.co.ls" target="_blank">Ruben@ace.co.ls</a> ; <a title="adrian@rocketworks.org" href="mailto:adrian@rocketworks.org" target="_blank">adrian@rocketworks.org</a> ; <a title="sonta@emerging.se" href="mailto:sonta@emerging.se" target="_blank">sonta@emerging.se</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 18, 2013
11:19 AM</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> [biochar] First report
from Phnom Penh</div>
<div><br></div><span> </span> </div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p></p>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY:Arial;FONT-SIZE:12pt">
<div>Hi to two lists (with 6 ccs)<br><br> 1. This
written at end of "first" day of conference. Actually the
official first GACC day is tomorrow, but today was also the second
day of pre-conference activities.. List members active on
these two lists, here (and shown on the "to" list), who I hope will
add more are Priya Karve, Paul Anderson and Crispin
Pemberton-Piggott. I missed the first day - Sunday - returning
from Siem Reap - home of Angkor Wat. This is
definitely the most impressive world heritage site I have seen or
could imagine. Uniformly impressed by the Cambodian
people.<br><br></div> 2. My overall impression is that
very few attendees know much about biochar nor char-making
stoves. Of course most everyone knows something about stoves
- although I would guess that fewer than half have been
involved for more than a year or t wo Heard tonight that there
are 650 registrants. Great conference facilities;
no conference registration fee and fair number of freebie meals,
coffee-break treats etc.
<div><br><br> 3. My first surprise char-making stove
encounter was with Sonta Kauti, a Zambian with "Emerging Cooking
Solutions" - whose stove can be seen at <a href="http://www.emerging.se/" target="_blank">www.emerging.se</a>. I have not yet seen the
actual stove, nor yet know its pricing - but plan more talks with
Sonta<br><br></div> 4. Next was a short encounter with
Ruben Walker of "African Clean Energy" (see <a href="http://www.ace.co.ls/" target="_blank">http://www.ace.co.ls/</a>), now manufacturing in
Lesotho the "Philips" fan stove developed by Paul van der Sluis
(PvdS). This has been identified as having the best
performance characteristics so far tested. This was my first
chance to hold one - and it looks exceptionally well made. A
surprise was the set of 10 or 12 (?) flat ceramic liner pieces for
the interior (maybe 1 cm thick??).&nb sp; Presumably long life
time - being non-metal. Ruben said one could hold the
outside of the stove after an hour of cooking -possible because
there are four concentric metal cylinders (three concentric
air gaps). This stove is not char making - but I
remember hearing that PvdS regularly operates it as a
charcoal-maker. Cost in neighborhood of $70.
<div><br><br> 5. Later, at this evening's reception, Mr.
Adrian Padt of "Rocket Works" introduced himself (see <a href="http://www.rocketworks.org/" target="_blank">http://www.rocketworks.org/</a> - including
photo of Adrian). This is the stove with the interesting heavy
wire mesh exterior that we discussed a few months ago - also can be
held. This also looked exceptionally well made and
rugged. Cost in the neighborhood of $50. In
addition to the version seen at the site, they are now adding a door
to better control excess air.<br><br></div> 6. I attended a
day-long session put on by the World B ank and the Asian Development
Bank.- the emphasis was on country organizations in this
region. Crispin was on what I thought the best panel - on
testing, etc. This is to hope that Priya, Paul, and Crispin
(and anyone else from these lists here in Phnom Penh) will also add
their early summary thoughts.
<div><br><br>Any questions I/we can try to
answer?<br><br>Ron<br></div></div>
<p></p>
<p></p></div>
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<div style="MIN-HEIGHT:0px;COLOR:#fff">__,_._,___</div></blockquote></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves
mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to
UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>for
more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
site:<br><a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>26/5 Phu Dong Thien
Vuong<br>Dalat<br>Vietnam<br><br>Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124
(rings Vietnam)<br>Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>Skype address:
Xpolivier<br><a href="http://www.esrla.com/" target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a> </div></div>
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<p></p>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing
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<p></p></blockquote></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves
mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or
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<br>for
more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
site:<br><a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>26/5 Phu Dong Thien
Vuong<br>Dalat<br>Vietnam<br><br>Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings
Vietnam)<br>Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>Skype address:
Xpolivier<br><a href="http://www.esrla.com/" target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a>
</div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves
mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to
UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>for
more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
site:<br><a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>***<br>Dr. A.D. Karve<br>Trustee & Founder President,
Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br><br>
<p>
</p><hr>
<p></p>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing
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site:<br><a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br><p></p></div></div></blockquote></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
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<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
<a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong<br>Dalat<br>Vietnam<br>
<br>Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)<br>Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>Skype address: Xpolivier<br><a href="http://www.esrla.com/" target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a>