<font style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;" size="2">Dear
Stovers.<br />cant find the homepage of the conference with Google
(Phnom Penh, smokeless kitchen, conference, march)?<br />Was in Phnom
Penh a week ago, did not know this is a big and important
conference....<img
src="cid:7c9dc31e33c1b44a1b16d689ad53880a" /><br
/>Thanks<br />Chris ADAM<br />scda2@ymail.com<br /><br /><br /><br />
-----Original Message-----<br />
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 09:01:44 +0100<br />
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh<br />
From: Paul Olivier <paul.olivier@esrla.com><br />
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
<stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br />
<br />
<div style="position: relative;">Kevin,<br /><br />In the study on
<font>Water spinach, Chinese cabbage, Celery cabbage and Mustard greens,
the starting pH was 5.8.<br /></font><font>Where do you get this pH
number of 4.5?<br /><font><font><font><br /><font>Paul</font><br />
</font></font></font></font><br /><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar
22, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Kevin <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br /> <blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:
1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote"><u
/> <div bgcolor="#ffffff"> <div><font face="Arial">Dear
Anand</font></div> <div><font face="Arial"></font> </div> <div><font
face="Arial">The impressive yield improvement may have been due to
neither the minerals nor the biochar, but simply as a result of pH
adjustment by the ash content of the biochar. As I recall, the original
"Control Soil" used in the Preston Report had a pH in the
range of about 4.5, while the "biochar soil" with the maximum
yield had a pH in the range of 7-7.5.</font></div> <div><font
face="Arial"></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial">Best
wishes,</font></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div> <div><font
face="Arial">Kevin</font></div> </font></span><blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-left: 5px;
padding-right: 0px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"><div
class="im"> <div style="font: 10pt arial;">----- Original Message -----
</div> <div style="font: 10pt arial; background: none repeat scroll 0%
0% rgb(228, 228, 228);"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com"
title="adkarve@gmail.com">Anand Karve</a> </div> <div style="font: 10pt
arial;"><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</a> </div> </div><div><div class="h5"><div style="font: 10pt
arial;"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:53 PM</div> <div
style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] [biochar] First
report from Phnom Penh</div> <div><br /></div> <div>Dear Paul, Ron and
others,</div> <div> I was instrumental in the development of an urban
biogas plant, which does not use cattle dung but uses food waste as
feedstock. One kg dry weight of starch, sugar, cellulose, protein or any
other kind of human food produces about 1 kg biogas. My biogas plant
could normally accept only 1gram (dry weight) food waste per litre
capacity of digester. Our experiments in which the biogas digester was
filled with charcoal made it possible to increase the quantity of food
waste to three grams per litre, with three times as much biogas becoming
available from the same plant. This worked for about three months and
then the higher efficiency was no longer available. It is a common
observation, that a biogas plant works better, if chemical fertilizers
are added to the feedstock. I have been thinking about this and it
appears to me that it was the minerals in the biochar, that were
contributing to this phenomenon. After the organisms in the biogas plant
had consumed the minerals, the higher efficiency was no longer
available. <br />The same phenomenon might be responsible for the
higher yield in fields provided with biochar. </div> <div>Yours</div>
<div>A.D.Karve<br /></div> <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 19, 2013
at 12:24 PM, Paul Olivier <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br /> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px
solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left:
1ex;">Kevin,<br /><br />Thanks very much for your reflection. Toward the
end, you raise the interesting question: which is worth more, biochar as
a fuel or biochar as an agricultural product? Let me come down strongly
in favor of biochar as an agricultural product. At the end of the same
presentation, I ask the question: what is the value of biochar when
cattle put on 25% more weight than those in the control group, when
enteric methane emissions from the same cattle are reduced by 42%, when
mustard greens grow at a rate 400% faster than the control group, or
when the same mustard greens have 40% less fiber and 35% more protein?
About 20 experiments were carried put with rice hull biochar from my
gasifiers, and all indicated much higher plant and animal growth. How
then do we put a value on biochar, when current prices for biochar do
not yet reflect this new reality? If we burn biochar, all goes up in a
puff of smoke. If we use biochar in agriculture, we use a lot less feed
and a lot less fertilizer for the same end result, and the benefits stay
with us a very long time.<br /><br />We stand in urgent need for a lot
more biochar studies in a lot more agricultural settings. What we are
trying to do at the moment is to understand why biochar has such a
dramatic effect when used in agriculture. Yes, we can point to its pore
structure, to its surface area, to its cation and anion exchange
capacities, to its pH and to its water-holding capacity. But these
elements alone do not give a complete picture. Over 20 years ago,
Japanese scientists were pointing out how biochar promotes the growth of
abuscular mycorrhizal fungi. I have a strong suspicion that these
scientists were leading us in the right direction. So in some of the
next biochar studies that Dr. Preston will conduct, he will focus on how
biochar promotes the growth of AM fungi.<br /><br />Thanks.<span><font
color="#888888"><br />Paul</font></span> <div> <div><br /><br /> <div
class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Kevin <span
dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br /> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px
solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left:
1ex;"><u /> <div bgcolor="#ffffff"> <div><font face="Arial">Dear
Paul</font></div> <div><font face="Arial"></font> </div> <div><font
face="Arial">Thanks very much for your very interesting slide
Presentation on your Stove, and the explanation of "Rice Hull
Biochar and Fuel Gas Production.Economics."</font></div> <div><font
face="Arial"></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial">Basically, 1 kg of
free rice hulls yields $US 0.24 worth of pyrolysis gas for heating and
350 grams of Rice Hull Biochar worth about $0.30 per kg, or say $
0.10</font></div> <div><font face="Arial"></font> </div> <div><font
face="Arial">A typical Vietnamese Family would consume about 1 MT of
Rice Hulls per year, producing pyrolysis gas for cooking, worth about
$240, and 350 kG of Biochar worth about $100, total $350 per year in the
value of cooking energy + biochar sales per year.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial">If your
#150 stove sold for $40, it could pay for itself in less than 1/2 year,
with sales of biochar alone, the value of the pyrolysis gases for
cooking would be the equivalent of about 1 bottle of LPG per month, ie,
an additional $22 per month of "free money." If the use of the
pyrolysis gas displaced the need to purchase 1 bottle of LPG per month,
then total savings would be about $22 + $8 = $30 per month, and the
stove would be paid for in less than 2 months. This indeed would be a
very attractive money making investment for the family.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial">The
method of financing the stoves that you propose is very attractive to
the Typical Family, where a Charcoal Merchant would supply the stove to
the Family, and they would pay for the stove with the charcoal they
produced.</font></div> <div><font face="Arial"></font> </div> <div><font
face="Arial">The above numbers indicate that, at $0.30 per kG, the char
production sells for $300 per MT.. If this was the value of the char,
when sold into the "Biochar market", what would be the value
of the char when sold into the "Charcoal Fuel market"?, If
the value of the char when sold into the "Biochar Market" was
greater than its value when sold into the Charcoal Fuel Market, then it
would get used as biochar, but if it had more value as Charcoal fuel, it
would be advantageous to the Family to sell it into the fuel
market.</font></div> <div><font face="Arial"></font> </div> <div><font
face="Arial">it looks like you have a very attractive Stove
Project!</font></div> <div><font face="Arial"></font> </div> <div><font
face="Arial">Best wishes for every success!</font></div><span><font
color="#888888"> <div><font face="Arial"></font> </div> <div><font
face="Arial">Kevin</font></div></font></span> <blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-left: 5px;
padding-right: 0px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"> <div> <div
style="font: 10pt arial;">----- Original Message ----- </div> <div
style="font: 10pt arial; background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% rgb(228,
228, 228);"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com"
title="paul.olivier@esrla.com">Paul Olivier</a> </div> <div style="font:
10pt arial;"><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</a> </div></div> <div> <div> <div style="font: 10pt
arial;"><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com"
title="biochar@yahoogroups.com">biochar@yahoogroups.com</a> ; <a
href="mailto:adrian@rocketworks.org"
title="adrian@rocketworks.org">adrian@rocketworks.org</a> ; <a
href="mailto:sonta@emerging.se"
title="sonta@emerging.se">sonta@emerging.se</a> ; <a
href="mailto:Ruben@ace.co.ls"
title="Ruben@ace.co.ls">Ruben@ace.co.ls</a> ; <a
href="mailto:pkarve@arti-india.org"
title="pkarve@arti-india.org">Priyadarshini Karve</a> </div> <div
style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 18, 2013 9:08
PM</div> <div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves]
[biochar] First report from Phnom Penh</div> <div><br /></div>Kevin,<br
/><br />Biochar can have significant value even in poor countries. For
example, here in Dalat rice hull biochar is used extensively as a soil
amendment. If a poor household can produce one kg of biochar per day
and sell it at a fair market price, this will cover the cost of the
means to produce it in less than a year. A lot more money has to be
devoted to biochar research in a variety of agricultural applications.
Once farmers understand the value of biochar with respect to the
specific plants or animals they grow, there will be a rush to produce
it. The high-grade heat produced in making biochar can be used for
cooking, and as a by-product of biochar production, it becomes available
to the household free-of-charge. To waste this heat, as some propose to
do, is incredibly short-sighted. The sale of biochar should be able to
cover not only the cost of the biomass from which it was derived, but in
time it should also cover the means to produce it. That is why I push
hard against those who want to use biochar as a fuel.<br /><br />Let us
suppose that a gasifier costs $50 US dollars. Let us suppose that a
household produces one kg of biochar per day at a value of only $0.20 US
per kg. This represents an income of about $6.00 US dollars per month.
In less than a year the cost of the gasifier is covered.<br /><br />Here
in Vietnam LPG sells for about $22 US dollars per bottle. Some
households consume up to two bottles of LPG each month. This works out
to a monthly fuel cost of $44 US dollars. This reliance on fossil fuels
is killing and has to stop.<br /><br /><a
href="https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/Paper/Presentations/Gasification.ppsx">https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/Paper/Presentations/Gasification.ppsx</a><br
/> <br />Thanks.<br />Paul<br /><br /> <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue,
Mar 19, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Kevin <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br /> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px
solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left:
1ex;"><u /> <div bgcolor="#ffffff"> <div><font face="Arial">Dear
Ron</font></div> <div><font face="Arial"></font> </div> <div><font
face="Arial">Thanks for your very interesting report to date on
"The Big Event."</font></div> <div><font face="Arial"></font>
</div> <div><font face="Arial">I think that one thing that could be very
helpful is a Graph showing " Stove Price" versus
"Potential Customers." Clearly, if a person is earning say $1
per day, and the stove cost $70, this would be equivalent to 70 days
income. Here in Canada, where the minimum wage is $10 per hour, or $80
per day, a stove costing 70 days income would cost $5,600.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial">Or, to
look at it from the other direction, "What price would a stove have
to sell for, so that 90% of the World's Population could afford to buy
it"</font></div> <div><font face="Arial"></font> </div> <div><font
face="Arial">Thanks!</font></div> <div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Kevin</font></div> <div> </div> <blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-left: 5px;
padding-right: 0px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"> <div> <div
style="font: 10pt arial;">----- Original Message ----- </div> <div
style="font: 10pt arial; background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% rgb(228,
228, 228);"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net"
title="rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a> </div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass</a> ; <a
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com"
title="biochar@yahoogroups.com">biochar</a> </div> <div style="font:
10pt arial;"><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:pkarve@arti-india.org"
title="pkarve@arti-india.org">Priyadarshini Karve</a> ; <a
href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" title="psanders@ilstu.edu">,"paul
anderson</a> ; <a href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com"
title="crispinpigott@gmail.com">Crispin Pemberton-Pigott</a> ; <a
href="mailto:Ruben@ace.co.ls"
title="Ruben@ace.co.ls">Ruben@ace.co.ls</a> ; <a
href="mailto:adrian@rocketworks.org"
title="adrian@rocketworks.org">adrian@rocketworks.org</a> ; <a
href="mailto:sonta@emerging.se"
title="sonta@emerging.se">sonta@emerging.se</a> </div> <div style="font:
10pt arial;"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 18, 2013 11:19 AM</div> <div
style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>Subject:</b> [biochar] First report from
Phnom Penh</div> <div><br /></div><span> </span> </div> <div> <div>
<div> <br /> <div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;"> <div>Hi
to two lists (with 6 ccs)<br /><br /> 1. This written at end of
"first" day of conference. Actually the official first GACC
day is tomorrow, but today was also the second day of pre-conference
activities.. List members active on these two lists, here (and shown on
the "to" list), who I hope will add more are Priya Karve, Paul
Anderson and Crispin Pemberton-Piggott. I missed the first day - Sunday
- returning from Siem Reap - home of Angkor Wat. This is definitely
the most impressive world heritage site I have seen or could imagine.
Uniformly impressed by the Cambodian people.<br /><br /></div> 2. My
overall impression is that very few attendees know much about biochar
nor char-making stoves. Of course most everyone knows something about
stoves - although I would guess that fewer than half have been involved
for more than a year or t wo Heard tonight that there are 650
registrants. Great conference facilities; no conference registration
fee and fair number of freebie meals, coffee-break treats etc. <div><br
/><br /> 3. My first surprise char-making stove encounter was with
Sonta Kauti, a Zambian with "Emerging Cooking Solutions" -
whose stove can be seen at <a
href="http://www.emerging.se/">www.emerging.se</a>. I have not yet seen
the actual stove, nor yet know its pricing - but plan more talks with
Sonta<br /><br /></div> 4. Next was a short encounter with Ruben
Walker of "African Clean Energy" (see <a
href="http://www.ace.co.ls/">http://www.ace.co.ls/</a>), now
manufacturing in Lesotho the "Philips" fan stove developed by
Paul van der Sluis (PvdS). This has been identified as having the best
performance characteristics so far tested. This was my first chance to
hold one - and it looks exceptionally well made. A surprise was the set
of 10 or 12 (?) flat ceramic liner pieces for the interior (maybe 1 cm
thick??).&nb sp; Presumably long life time - being non-metal.
Ruben said one could hold the outside of the stove after an hour of
cooking -possible because there are four concentric metal cylinders
(three concentric air gaps). This stove is not char making - but I
remember hearing that PvdS regularly operates it as a charcoal-maker.
Cost in neighborhood of $70. <div><br /><br /> 5. Later, at this
evening's reception, Mr. Adrian Padt of "Rocket Works"
introduced himself (see <a
href="http://www.rocketworks.org/">http://www.rocketworks.org/</a> -
including photo of Adrian). This is the stove with the interesting
heavy wire mesh exterior that we discussed a few months ago - also can
be held. This also looked exceptionally well made and rugged. Cost in
the neighborhood of $50. In addition to the version seen at the site,
they are now adding a door to better control excess air.<br /><br
/></div> 6. I attended a day-long session put on by the World B ank and
the Asian Development Bank.- the emphasis was on country organizations
in this region. Crispin was on what I thought the best panel - on
testing, etc. This is to hope that Priya, Paul, and Crispin (and anyone
else from these lists here in Phnom Penh) will also add their early
summary thoughts. <div><br /><br />Any questions I/we can try to
answer?<br /><br />Ron<br /></div></div> <br /> <br /></div> <div
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font-size: 1px;">.</div></div><img height="1" width="1" /> <br /> <div
style="min-height: 0px; color: rgb(255, 255,
255);">__,_._,___</div></blockquote></div><br
/>_______________________________________________<br />Stoves mailing
list<br /><br />to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br
/><a
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br
/><br />to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br
/><a
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br
/> <br />for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our
web site:<br /><a
href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br
/><br /><br /></blockquote></div><br /><br clear="all" /><br />-- <br
/>Paul A. Olivier PhD<br />26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong<br />Dalat<br
/>Vietnam<br /><br />Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings
Vietnam)<br />Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br />Skype address:
Xpolivier<br /><a href="http://www.esrla.com/">http://www.esrla.com/</a>
</div></div> <br /> <hr /> <div> <br
/>_______________________________________________<br />Stoves mailing
list<br /><br />to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br
/><a
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br
/><br />to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br
/><a
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br
/> <br />for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our
web site:<br /><a
href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br
/><br /></div> <br /></blockquote></div><br
/>_______________________________________________<br />Stoves mailing
list<br /><br />to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br
/><a
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br
/><br />to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br
/><a
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br
/> <br />for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our
web site:<br /><a
href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br
/><br /><br /></blockquote></div><br /><br clear="all" /><br />-- <br
/>Paul A. Olivier PhD<br />26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong<br />Dalat<br
/>Vietnam<br /><br />Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings
Vietnam)<br />Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br />Skype address:
Xpolivier<br /><a href="http://www.esrla.com/">http://www.esrla.com/</a>
</div></div><br />_______________________________________________<br
/>Stoves mailing list<br /><br />to Send a Message to the list, use the
email address<br /><a
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br
/><br />to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br
/><a
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br
/> <br />for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our
web site:<br /><a
href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br
/><br /><br /></blockquote></div><br /><br clear="all" /><br />-- <br
/>***<br />Dr. A.D. Karve<br />Trustee & Founder President,
Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br /><br /> <p
style="margin:0px;"> </p><hr /> <br
/>_______________________________________________<br />Stoves mailing
list<br /><br />to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br
/><a
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br
/><br />to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br
/><a
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br
/><br />for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our
web site:<br /><a
href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br
/><br /><br /></div></div></blockquote></div> <br
/>_______________________________________________<br /> Stoves mailing
list<br /> <br /> to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<br /> <a
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br
/> <br /> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web
page<br /> <a
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br
/> <br /> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our
web site:<br /> <a
href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br
/> <br /> <br /></blockquote></div><br /><br clear="all" /><br />-- <br
/>Paul A. Olivier PhD<br />26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong<br />Dalat<br
/>Vietnam<br /> <br />Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings
Vietnam)<br />Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br />Skype address:
Xpolivier<br /><a href="http://www.esrla.com/">http://www.esrla.com/</a>
</div></font>