<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.19403">
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Paul</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=paul.olivier@esrla.com href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com">Paul
Olivier</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, March 23, 2013 8:07
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] [biochar] First
report from Phnom Penh</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Kevin,<BR><BR>When you claim that Preston in the mustard green study had
a starting pH of 4.5, when in fact it was 5.8 pH, then discussing these issues
with you is a complete waste of time.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><STRONG># In my posting relating to Dr. Karve's posting,
I clearly said "...As I recollect... pH 4.5..." In the posting to which you
are responding, I gave a clear expalnation for the source of my error
(imperfect recollection), and I claim that my point is equally valid when the
correct pH of 5.8 is used. Please deal with the issue, using the correct 5.8
number.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial># If you want to get picky about errors, you
stated that the Mustard Green improvement was 400%, which overstate the
astounding 350% improvement reported by Dr. Preston. "Let he who is without
errors cast the first stone..." or something like that....
:-)</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial></FONT></STRONG><FONT
face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> If you are going to read a scientific paper, then read the numbers
that are there, and do not invent numbers that support your claim.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><STRONG># I was not reading or discussing a
scientific paper. I simply offered a possible explanation, based on my
recollection, for the results Dr. Karve observed when he added
biochar to his reactor. </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> How can we have a discussion if you engage in phantasy? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><STRONG># We can have a discussion if we stick to the
issues at hand. We cannot have a discussion if you wish to indule in ad
hominum attacks, and evade the issue at hand. The general issue was
"growth improvement as a result of simple pH change and ash mineral additions,
in contrast to the benefits associated with "pure biochar." You seem to
have tilted the discussion away from AD's bioreactor, and toward
Dr. Preston's astounding Mustard Green Growth. Additionally, you have
introduced the issue of "25% weight gains with biochar", which I feel is
misleading.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>To claim that the only benefit of biochar is its high pH, conveniently
overlooks all of the other positive attributes that biochar brings to the
soil. I strongly recommend that you read <I>Biochar for Environmental
Management</I>, edited by Lehmann and Joseph.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><STRONG># I certainly did not claim "... <FONT
face="Times New Roman">the only benefit of biochar is its high pH</FONT>
...".You are very wrong when you make that unsupportable statement.
Indeed, I proposed an experiement that would sort out how much benefit
resulted from the soluble ash fraction, and how much benefit resulted
from "pure biochar." The Lehmann and Joseph book is probably a very good
one. However, lets stick to the issue at hand:</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><STRONG> <FONT size=4>-->Are you saying that the
change in pH for the Mustard Greens in Dr. Preston's experiments did not have
a significant effect on the astounding growth improvement that possibly
overwhelmed the benefits of the "pure Biochar"? (ie, "regular" Rice Hull
Biochar leached with hot water)</FONT></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><STRONG>Best wishes,</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
face=Arial><STRONG>Kevin</STRONG></FONT><BR><BR>Thanks.<BR>Paul<BR><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 12:07 AM, Kevin <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net"
target=_blank>kchisholm@ca.inter.net</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote><U></U>
<DIV bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Dear Paul</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=im>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>From:</B> <A
title=paul.olivier@esrla.com href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com"
target=_blank>Paul Olivier</A> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=im>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target=_blank>Discussion of
biomass cooking stoves</A> ; <A title=rongretlarson@comcast.net
href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target=_blank>Ron Larson</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 22, 2013 4:44
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] [biochar] First
report from Phnom Penh</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=im>
<DIV>Anand,<BR><BR>I cannot follow what Kevin is saying here at all.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><B># What I am saying is that soil pH ( or
bio-reactor pH) is very important, and that it is possible that most of
the results from the astounding 350- 400% improvement may have been a
result of simple pH adjustment, and not as a consequence of "pure biochar"
additions. This is a special situation where an acidic soil was treated
with high ash alkaline biochar, giving excellent results. The results are
almost certainly not transferrable to a more common situation where a
"reasonably good soil" has a biochar addition, where the biochar is made
from a "low ash biochar", such as would be attained from bark free sawn
lumber off-cuts from a sawmill. In "the more common situation", I am
suggesting that it is very unlikely that anything near a 400% yield
improvement would be seen. If Dr Preston had leached the Rice Hull
biochar with hot water, and then run tests as follows, he could have
easily sorted out the degree to which ash (with a pH adjustment
effect) or the biochar were responsible for the reported remarkable
improvement:</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><B>a: Control </B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><B>b Control + "biochar leach
water"</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><B>c: Control + "leached biochar"</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><B>d: Control + "Unleached biochar"</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial>As reported, Dr. Preston ran Tests a: and d: and
was unable to sort out the relative benefits of pH adjustment from the
benefits of biochar itself.</FONT><BR><BR></B>
<DIV class=im>Let us take a look at the biochar study with respect to
mustard green and other vegetables:<BR><A
href="http://www.lrrd.org/public-lrrd/proofs/lrrd2501/chha25008.htm"
target=_blank>http://www.lrrd.org/public-lrrd/proofs/lrrd2501/chha25008.htm</A></DIV></DIV><FONT
face=Arial></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><B># We see from the Abstract of the
report"</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>" <FONT size=+0>The experimental design in a field
plot trial (soil pH 5.8; OM 17%) conducted in the rainy season (September
to October 2012) involved 24 treatments arranged in a 6*4 factorial
arrangement with 3 replications. The first factor was level of biochar (0,
1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 kg/m<SUP>2</SUP>); the second factor was the type of
vegetable (Water spinach, Chinese cabbage, Celery cabbage and
Mustard green). Fertilization was with biodigester effluent (10kg
N/ha applied to all treatments. The area of each plot was 1.6m<SUP>2</SUP>
(2.0m length x 0.8m width) with spacing between each plot of 0.5m. The
experiment lasted 35 days. The biochar (pH 9.3; OM 29.4% in DM) was from a
paddy rice drier (combustion temperature with rice husks as feedstock was
about 500<FONT face="Times New Roman">°C).</FONT></FONT>
<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=+0>Increasing the
application of biochar from 0 to 5 kg/m<SUP>2</SUP> led to linear
increases in biomass DM yield of 39, 100, 300 and 350 % for Water
spinach, Chinese cabbage, Celery cabbage and Mustard green, respectively.
Soil quality was improved after the 35 day trial (pH 6.82-7.13; OM 22.6 -
25.7%). The chemical composition of the biomass DM showed average
increases in crude protein from 13.7 to 18.1% for leaves and from 7.23 to
9.16 for stems. By contrast, crude fiber in leaves decreased from
14.5 to 9.27% in DM while in stems it fell from 15.6 to 10.7%.
</FONT>"</P>
<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" class=MsoNormal><B># Note the large difference
in reported results for biochar application... 39% DM increase for Water
Spinnach, and 350% DM increase for Mustard Greens. The difference is more
than a factor of 10, so something very interesting is happening. One very
simple explanantion is that the Mustard Greens benefitted from the pH
increase more than did the Water Spinnach.</B> </P></FONT>
<DIV class=im><BR><BR>Preston acknowledged in his Introduction the fact
that biochar has an impact on soil pH.<BR>He hides
nothing:<BR><BR><I><SPAN>Biochar is a fine-grained porous substance that
resembles charcoal produced by natural burning.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN><SPAN>However, biochar is produced by the
combustion of biomass under oxygen limited conditions at </SPAN>high
temperatures (from 600 to 1000 °C) in a gasifier. As most of the mineral
matter in biomass is composed of salts of K, Na and Ca, it has a strong
alkaline reaction giving rise to a pH of between 8 and 10 (Rodriguez et al
2009). Thus application of biochar as a soil amender is especially
appropriate in acid soils with a low content of organic matter. Biochar is
unlikely to have a major role as a fertilizer but, because of its
structure, it can be expected to increase water-holding capacity, and be a
good habitat for microbes and plant nutrients</I>. </DIV>
<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial># Dr.
Preston is correct in acknowledging the beneficial effect of biochar for
raising soil pH when increased pH is desired. </FONT></B></P>
<DIV class=im>
<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" class=MsoNormal>A bit further he
explains:<BR><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: normal"><I>The
soil used in the experiment showed improvements as reflected in increased
content of organic matter, nitrogen and pH as a result of the addition of
biochar.</I> </SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><B># It would have been very interesting to have
seen an "Analysis set" as follows:</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><B>a: Initial soil OM content</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><B>b: Initial soil OM Content + Biochar, analysed
for "Total Organic Matter Content" BEFORE growth trials</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><B>c: Initial soil OM Content + Biochar, analysed
for "Total Organic Matter Content" AFTER growth
trials.</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial>I would suggest that biochar is NOT "Organic
Matter", but rather it is simply "mineralized carbon", in that it does not
provide nutrition for soil organisms, as does "conventional OM". The
difference between the "b: and "c:" data sets would show the true OM
increase.</FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV class=im><I></I>
<DIV><BR>Let us look at the ideal pH for growing mustard greens:<BR><A
href="http://www.heirloomseeds.com/sthrn-veg.htm"
target=_blank>http://www.heirloomseeds.com/sthrn-veg.htm</A><BR>The pH for
growing mustard greens varies between 5.5 and 7.5.<BR>Some people suggest
a pH between 6 and 7.<BR>In any case, a number of 6 is still quite
acceptable:<BR><BR>The starting pH of the soil in this experiment was
5.8.<BR>Where did Kevin get this number of 4.5?<BR>How did he come up with
this number?<BR>What motivated him to come up with this number!!!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><B><FONT face=Arial># Firstly, the 4.5 pH number was
from recollection, and apparently I recollected wrong. There was no
intent or motivation to misquote the Report, but simply to illustrate
my point. If my posting to Anand and the List is corrected to 5.8, instead
of the erroneous 4.5, then the message I was intending to convey is
the same.</FONT><BR></B></FONT>
<DIV class=im><BR>If an acceptable pH for mustard greens is
6.0,<BR> and if the starting pH in this experiment was
5.8,<BR> how can Kevin be so sure that the entire positive effect of
biochar can be summarized only in terms of pH?</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><B># Firstly, the general pH range of 5.5 to
7.5 is widely used as a "generally good pH for soils", simply because of
solubility conditions where most of the macro and micro nutrients
necessary for good plant growth are in a "generally acceptable range." To
take two extremes, (again from memory), Iron
has an reasonable solubility at (about) pH5.5(?) and
Molybdenum has a maximum availability at about 7.5(?) Thus Rodedendrons,
who are very dependant on Iron might grow in a soil of pH6, but very
poorly, because the pH might be too high, and Alfalfa, with a strong need
for Moly would also grow very poorly, because the Moly availability was
too low. Thus, adding high ash biochar to such a soil, to bring the pH to
say 7.5 would probably kill the Rhodies dead, but the Alfalfa would likely
show an extremely good improvement in growth. So, if one wanted to
structure a test to show that "biochar was bad", one would use
Rhodies, or other ericaceous plants, like blueberries, and get "killer
results", while if one wanted to make biochar look very
good, one would run the biochar tests on Alfalfa, and get
wonderful results.</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><B></B></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial># Now, I am not absolutely sure that Mustard
Greens will be as responsive to pH change as Alfalfa would likely
be, in that I have not done experiments to get supporting evidence,
but I do know that pH is very important, and that when there is a
wide range in pH change, bad stuff (or good stuff!) can happen. The
experiment I suggested above would go a long way to proving the
degree to which of the positive effects Reg observed were due to pH
adjustment, and which were due to "pure biochar." As noted above, the
Mustard Greens (like the Alfalfa) might be a plant that benefits
significantly from pH, while Water Spinnach may
not. </FONT></B></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=im><FONT face=Arial></FONT>
<DIV><BR>Also Kevin has made mention several time of the biochar study Dr.
Preston did with respect to cattle.<BR>Let us take a look at this
study:<BR><A href="http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd24/11/leng24199.htm"
target=_blank>http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd24/11/leng24199.htm</A><BR><BR>The
study was conducted over a period of 98 days. The cattle fed biochar
gained 129 grams per day. The cattle without biochar gained 103 grams per
day. The difference between these two numbers is 26 grams (a little over
25%).<BR><BR>At the end of the study, the cattle with biochar gained
12.642 kgs, while the cattle without biochar gained 10.094
kgs.<BR><BR>Preston did not claim that at the end of the study the cattle
with biochar were 25% heavier than the cattle without biochar. He simply
said that during this experiment the cattle with biochar put on 25% more
weight than the cattle without biochar. The key concept here is <I>live
weight gain</I> - a term used quite often in animal studies. This is what
he reported: <FONT size=+0>"<I>Live weight gain was increased 25% by
adding biochar to the diet DM..</I>"</FONT> There is absolutely nothing
misleading about the manner in which he made such a claim, and his claim
was consistent with all of the data reported in the paper.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV><B><FONT face=Arial># My concern here is that Readers will miss the
subtlety in Dr. Preston's statement: If biochar was promoted as "giving a
25% live weight gain", I would guess that most Farmers would figure that
"with biochar, I can add 250 pounds to my 1000 pound cow." However, with
Dr. Preston's reporting methodology, he is reporting on "differential
weight gain", not "live weight gain." With this reporting methodology, the
Farmer with one cow could go from 1,000 pounds to 1,100 pounds on his
present ration, and another 1,000 lb cow on the biochar ration could
gain to 1,125 pounds, and a "25% differential weight gain" could
truly be claimed. In this latter case, the "Live Weight Gain" is only
12.5%</FONT><BR><BR></B>
<DIV class=im>Also I have no reason to doubt the numbers he reported with
respect to enteric methane reduction (reductions up to 41%). If the cow
produces less methane, one might expect that DM feed conversion would
improve and that the cow would put on more weight. These numbers with
respect to methane reduction are truly amazing. </DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><B># Yes, indeed, the results were amazing.
Unfortunately, the above link does not work for me at the present, but I
believe the enteric methane reduction is due to the presence of
increased nitrate content in the diet. Again, biochar may have helped on
an incremental basis, but it may not have been, or was not, the prime
cause of the improvement. I also understand that chicken manure can be fed
to cattle to get the same benefit, because if its high nitrate
content.</B><BR></FONT>
<DIV class=im><BR>In his paper Dr. Preston did not attempt to deceived or
mislead.<BR>His science is good science, and it is grounded in over 50
years working with cattle.</DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><B># Dr. Preston may indeed be correct, and I may be
wrong. However, I do think that my concerns are valid at this stage, and
that proper future testing can sort out the issues. </B></FONT></DIV><FONT
face=Arial></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><B>Best wishes,</B></FONT></DIV><FONT
face=Arial></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT
face=Arial><B>Kevin</B></FONT>
<DIV>
<DIV class=h5>
<DIV><BR><BR>Thanks.<BR>Paul<BR><BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Kevin <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net"
target=_blank>kchisholm@ca.inter.net</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote><U></U>
<DIV bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Dear Anand</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>The impressive yield improvement may have been due
to neither the minerals nor the biochar, but simply as a result of pH
adjustment by the ash content of the biochar. As I recall, the original
"Control Soil" used in the Preston Report had a pH in the range of about
4.5, while the "biochar soil" with the maximum yield had a pH in the
range of 7-7.5.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Best wishes,</FONT></DIV><SPAN><FONT
color=#888888>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Kevin</FONT></DIV></FONT></SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>From:</B> <A
title=adkarve@gmail.com href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com"
target=_blank>Anand Karve</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target=_blank>Discussion
of biomass cooking stoves</A> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 21, 2013
9:53 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] [biochar]
First report from Phnom Penh</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Dear Paul, Ron and others,</DIV>
<DIV> I was instrumental in the development of an urban biogas
plant, which does not use cattle dung but uses food waste as
feedstock. One kg dry weight of starch, sugar, cellulose, protein or
any other kind of human food produces about 1 kg biogas. My
biogas plant could normally accept only 1gram (dry weight) food waste
per litre capacity of digester. Our experiments in which
the biogas digester was filled with charcoal made it possible
to increase the quantity of food waste to three grams per litre,
with three times as much biogas becoming available from the same
plant. This worked for about three months and then the higher
efficiency was no longer available. It is a common observation, that a
biogas plant works better, if chemical fertilizers are added to the
feedstock. I have been thinking about this and it appears to me that
it was the minerals in the biochar, that were contributing to this
phenomenon. After the organisms in the biogas plant had consumed
the minerals, the higher efficiency was no longer
available. <BR>The same phenomenon might be
responsible for the higher yield in fields provided with biochar.
</DIV>
<DIV>Yours</DIV>
<DIV>A.D.Karve<BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Paul Olivier
<SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com"
target=_blank>paul.olivier@esrla.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>Kevin,<BR><BR>Thanks very much for your
reflection. Toward the end, you raise the interesting question:
which is worth more, biochar as a fuel or biochar as an agricultural
product? Let me come down strongly in favor of biochar as an
agricultural product. At the end of the same presentation, I ask the
question: what is the value of biochar when cattle put on 25% more
weight than those in the control group, when enteric methane
emissions from the same cattle are reduced by 42%, when mustard
greens grow at a rate 400% faster than the control group, or when
the same mustard greens have 40% less fiber and 35% more protein?
About 20 experiments were carried put with rice hull biochar from my
gasifiers, and all indicated much higher plant and animal growth.
How then do we put a value on biochar, when current prices for
biochar do not yet reflect this new reality? If we burn biochar, all
goes up in a puff of smoke. If we use biochar in agriculture, we use
a lot less feed and a lot less fertilizer for the same end result,
and the benefits stay with us a very long time.<BR><BR>We stand in
urgent need for a lot more biochar studies in a lot more
agricultural settings. What we are trying to do at the moment is to
understand why biochar has such a dramatic effect when used in
agriculture. Yes, we can point to its pore structure, to its surface
area, to its cation and anion exchange capacities, to its pH and to
its water-holding capacity. But these elements alone do not give a
complete picture. Over 20 years ago, Japanese scientists were
pointing out how biochar promotes the growth of abuscular
mycorrhizal fungi. I have a strong suspicion that these scientists
were leading us in the right direction. So in some of the next
biochar studies that Dr. Preston will conduct, he will focus on how
biochar promotes the growth of AM fungi.<BR><BR>Thanks.<SPAN><FONT
color=#888888><BR>Paul</FONT></SPAN>
<DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Kevin <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net"
target=_blank>kchisholm@ca.inter.net</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote><U></U>
<DIV bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Dear Paul</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Thanks very much for your very interesting
slide Presentation on your Stove, and the explanation of "Rice
Hull Biochar and Fuel Gas Production.Economics."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Basically, 1 kg of free rice hulls yields
$US 0.24 worth of pyrolysis gas for heating and 350 grams of Rice
Hull Biochar worth about $0.30 per kg, or say $ 0.10</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>A typical Vietnamese Family would consume
about 1 MT of Rice Hulls per year, producing pyrolysis gas for
cooking, worth about $240, and 350 kG of Biochar worth about $100,
total $350 per year in the value of cooking energy + biochar sales
per year.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>If your #150 stove sold for $40, it
could pay for itself in less than 1/2 year, with sales of biochar
alone, the value of the pyrolysis gases for cooking would be the
equivalent of about 1 bottle of LPG per month, ie, an additional
$22 per month of "free money." If the use of the pyrolysis gas
displaced the need to purchase 1 bottle of LPG per month, then
total savings would be about $22 + $8 = $30 per month, and
the stove would be paid for in less than 2 months. This indeed
would be a very attractive money making investment for the
family.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>The method of financing the stoves that you
propose is very attractive to the Typical Family, where a Charcoal
Merchant would supply the stove to the Family, and they would pay
for the stove with the charcoal they produced.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>The above numbers indicate that, at $0.30
per kG, the char production sells for $300 per
MT.. If this was the value of the char, when sold into the
"Biochar market", what would be the value of the char when sold
into the "Charcoal Fuel market"?, If the value of the
char when sold into the "Biochar Market" was greater than its
value when sold into the Charcoal Fuel Market, then it would get
used as biochar, but if it had more value as Charcoal fuel, it
would be advantageous to the Family to sell it into the fuel
market.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>it looks like you have a very attractive
Stove Project!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Best wishes for every
success!</FONT></DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#888888>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Kevin</FONT></DIV></FONT></SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>From:</B>
<A title=paul.olivier@esrla.com
href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target=_blank>Paul
Olivier</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</A>
</DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A
title=biochar@yahoogroups.com
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com"
target=_blank>biochar@yahoogroups.com</A> ; <A
title=adrian@rocketworks.org
href="mailto:adrian@rocketworks.org"
target=_blank>adrian@rocketworks.org</A> ; <A
title=sonta@emerging.se href="mailto:sonta@emerging.se"
target=_blank>sonta@emerging.se</A> ; <A title=Ruben@ace.co.ls
href="mailto:Ruben@ace.co.ls" target=_blank>Ruben@ace.co.ls</A>
; <A title=pkarve@arti-india.org
href="mailto:pkarve@arti-india.org" target=_blank>Priyadarshini
Karve</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 18,
2013 9:08 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves]
[biochar] First report from Phnom Penh</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Kevin,<BR><BR>Biochar can have significant value
even in poor countries. For example, here in Dalat rice hull
biochar is used extensively as a soil amendment. If a poor
household can produce one kg of biochar per day and sell it at a
fair market price, this will cover the cost of the means to
produce it in less than a year. A lot more money has to be
devoted to biochar research in a variety of agricultural
applications. Once farmers understand the value of biochar with
respect to the specific plants or animals they grow, there will
be a rush to produce it. The high-grade heat produced in making
biochar can be used for cooking, and as a by-product of biochar
production, it becomes available to the household
free-of-charge. To waste this heat, as some propose to do, is
incredibly short-sighted. The sale of biochar should be able to
cover not only the cost of the biomass from which it was
derived, but in time it should also cover the means to produce
it. That is why I push hard against those who want to use
biochar as a fuel.<BR><BR>Let us suppose that a gasifier costs
$50 US dollars. Let us suppose that a household produces one kg
of biochar per day at a value of only $0.20 US per kg. This
represents an income of about $6.00 US dollars per month. In
less than a year the cost of the gasifier is
covered.<BR><BR>Here in Vietnam LPG sells for about $22 US
dollars per bottle. Some households consume up to two bottles of
LPG each month. This works out to a monthly fuel cost of $44 US
dollars. This reliance on fossil fuels is killing and has to
stop.<BR><BR><A
href="https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/Paper/Presentations/Gasification.ppsx"
target=_blank>https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/Paper/Presentations/Gasification.ppsx</A><BR><BR>Thanks.<BR>Paul<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Kevin
<SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net"
target=_blank>kchisholm@ca.inter.net</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote><U></U>
<DIV bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Dear Ron</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Thanks for your very interesting report
to date on "The Big Event."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I think that one thing that could be
very helpful is a Graph showing " Stove Price" versus
"Potential Customers." Clearly, if a person is earning say $1
per day, and the stove cost $70, this would be equivalent to
70 days income. Here in Canada, where the minimum wage is $10
per hour, or $80 per day, a stove costing 70 days income would
cost $5,600.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Or, to look at it from the other
direction, "What price would a stove have to sell for, so that
90% of the World's Population could afford to buy
it"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Thanks!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Kevin</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>From:</B>
<A title=rongretlarson@comcast.net
href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net"
target=_blank>rongretlarson@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>Discussion of biomass</A> ; <A
title=biochar@yahoogroups.com
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com"
target=_blank>biochar</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A
title=pkarve@arti-india.org
href="mailto:pkarve@arti-india.org"
target=_blank>Priyadarshini Karve</A> ; <A
title=psanders@ilstu.edu href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu"
target=_blank>,"paul anderson</A> ; <A
title=crispinpigott@gmail.com
href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com" target=_blank>Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott</A> ; <A title=Ruben@ace.co.ls
href="mailto:Ruben@ace.co.ls"
target=_blank>Ruben@ace.co.ls</A> ; <A
title=adrian@rocketworks.org
href="mailto:adrian@rocketworks.org"
target=_blank>adrian@rocketworks.org</A> ; <A
title=sonta@emerging.se href="mailto:sonta@emerging.se"
target=_blank>sonta@emerging.se</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 18,
2013 11:19 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [biochar]
First report from Phnom Penh</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><SPAN> </SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P></P>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV>Hi to two lists (with 6 ccs)<BR><BR>
1. This written at end of "first" day of
conference. Actually the official first GACC day is
tomorrow, but today was also the second day of
pre-conference activities.. List members active on
these two lists, here (and shown on the "to" list), who I
hope will add more are Priya Karve, Paul Anderson and
Crispin Pemberton-Piggott. I missed the first day -
Sunday - returning from Siem Reap - home of Angkor
Wat. This is definitely the most impressive
world heritage site I have seen or could imagine.
Uniformly impressed by the Cambodian
people.<BR><BR></DIV> 2. My overall impression
is that very few attendees know much about biochar nor
char-making stoves. Of course most everyone knows
something about stoves - although I would guess that
fewer than half have been involved for more than a year or t
wo Heard tonight that there are 650
registrants. Great conference facilities; no
conference registration fee and fair number of freebie
meals, coffee-break treats etc.
<DIV><BR><BR> 3. My first surprise char-making
stove encounter was with Sonta Kauti, a Zambian with
"Emerging Cooking Solutions" - whose stove can be seen
at <A href="http://www.emerging.se/"
target=_blank>www.emerging.se</A>. I have not yet seen
the actual stove, nor yet know its pricing - but plan more
talks with Sonta<BR><BR></DIV> 4. Next was a
short encounter with Ruben Walker of "African Clean
Energy" (see <A href="http://www.ace.co.ls/"
target=_blank>http://www.ace.co.ls/</A>), now manufacturing
in Lesotho the "Philips" fan stove developed by Paul van der
Sluis (PvdS). This has been identified as having the
best performance characteristics so far tested. This
was my first chance to hold one - and it looks exceptionally
well made. A surprise was the set of 10 or 12 (?) flat
ceramic liner pieces for the interior (maybe 1 cm
thick??).&nb sp; Presumably long life time - being
non-metal. Ruben said one could hold the outside
of the stove after an hour of cooking -possible because
there are four concentric metal cylinders (three
concentric air gaps). This stove is not char
making - but I remember hearing that PvdS regularly operates
it as a charcoal-maker. Cost in neighborhood of
$70.
<DIV><BR><BR> 5. Later, at this evening's
reception, Mr. Adrian Padt of "Rocket Works"
introduced himself (see <A
href="http://www.rocketworks.org/"
target=_blank>http://www.rocketworks.org/</A> -
including photo of Adrian). This is the stove with the
interesting heavy wire mesh exterior that we discussed a few
months ago - also can be held. This also looked
exceptionally well made and rugged. Cost in the
neighborhood of $50. In addition to the version
seen at the site, they are now adding a door to better
control excess air.<BR><BR></DIV> 6. I attended a
day-long session put on by the World B ank and the Asian
Development Bank.- the emphasis was on country organizations
in this region. Crispin was on what I thought the best
panel - on testing, etc. This is to hope that Priya,
Paul, and Crispin (and anyone else from these lists here in
Phnom Penh) will also add their early summary thoughts.
<DIV><BR><BR>Any questions I/we can try to
answer?<BR><BR>Ron<BR></DIV></DIV>
<P></P>
<P></P></DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 0px; COLOR: #fff">__._,_.___</DIV>
<TABLE style="MARGIN-TOP: 20px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 10px"
cellSpacing=4>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #eaeaea 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #eaeaea 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 5px; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f2f2f2; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 5px; FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: #fff; FONT-SIZE: 12px; BORDER-TOP: #eaeaea 1px solid; FONT-WEIGHT: bold; BORDER-RIGHT: #eaeaea 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 7px"><A
style="COLOR: #2d50fd; TEXT-DECORATION: none"
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyNWpzajRmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRtc2dJZAMxNDY3MARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNjM2MTYzNTc-?act=reply&messageNum=14670"
target=_blank>Reply via web post</A> </TD>
<TD
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #eaeaea 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #eaeaea 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 5px; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f2f2f2; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 5px; FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: #fff; FONT-SIZE: 12px; BORDER-TOP: #eaeaea 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #eaeaea 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 7px"><A
style="COLOR: #2d50fd; TEXT-DECORATION: none"
href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net?subject=Re%3A%20First%20report%20from%20Phnom%20Penh"
target=_blank>Reply to sender </A></TD>
<TD
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #eaeaea 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #eaeaea 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 5px; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f2f2f2; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 5px; FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: #fff; FONT-SIZE: 12px; BORDER-TOP: #eaeaea 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #eaeaea 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 7px"><A
style="COLOR: #2d50fd; TEXT-DECORATION: none"
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20First%20report%20from%20Phnom%20Penh"
target=_blank>Reply to group </A></TD>
<TD
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #eaeaea 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #eaeaea 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 5px; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f2f2f2; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 5px; FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: #fff; FONT-SIZE: 12px; BORDER-TOP: #eaeaea 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #eaeaea 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 7px"><A
style="COLOR: #2d50fd; TEXT-DECORATION: none"
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdWw3aTFvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNjM2MTYzNTc-"
target=_blank>Start a New Topic</A> </TD>
<TD
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #eaeaea 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #eaeaea 1px solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 5px; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f2f2f2; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 5px; FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: #2d50fd; FONT-SIZE: 12px; BORDER-TOP: #eaeaea 1px solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #eaeaea 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 7px"><A
style="COLOR: #2d50fd; TEXT-DECORATION: none"
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/message/14670;_ylc=X3oDMTM3OWpzaGUwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRtc2dJZAMxNDY3MARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNjM2MTYzNTcEdHBjSWQDMTQ2NzA-"
target=_blank>Messages in this topic</A> (1)
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<DIV
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 10px; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f2f2f2; PADDING-LEFT: 10px; PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 10px; FONT-SIZE: 10px; PADDING-TOP: 10px"><SPAN
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: uppercase; COLOR: #333; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Recent
Activity:</SPAN>
<UL
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LIST-STYLE-TYPE: none; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; DISPLAY: inline; PADDING-TOP: 0px">
<LI
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 5px; DISPLAY: inline; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px; FONT-WEIGHT: 700; BORDER-RIGHT: #000 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><SPAN><A
style="TEXT-DECORATION: none"
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJnazBoMWhyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzYzNjE2MzU3?o=6"
target=_blank>New Members</A></SPAN> <SPAN
style="COLOR: #ff7900">2</SPAN> </LI></UL>
<DIV
style="COLOR: #1e66ae; CLEAR: both; PADDING-TOP: 2px"><A
style="TEXT-DECORATION: none"
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZG8xaXZzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzNjM2MTYzNTc-"
target=_blank>Visit Your Group</A> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN-TOP: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 2px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; CLEAR: both; FONT-SIZE: 11px; PADDING-TOP: 0px"><A
style="FLOAT: left"
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZWZoZ2gxBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM2MzYxNjM1OA--"
target=_blank><IMG
style="BORDER-RIGHT-WIDTH: 0px; BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM-WIDTH: 0px; BORDER-LEFT-WIDTH: 0px"
alt="Yahoo! Groups" src="" width=137 height=15></A>
<DIV style="FLOAT: right; COLOR: #747575">Switch to: <A
style="TEXT-DECORATION: none"
href="mailto:biochar-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change+Delivery+Format:+Traditional"
target=_blank>Text-Only</A>, <A
style="TEXT-DECORATION: none"
href="mailto:biochar-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email+Delivery:+Digest"
target=_blank>Daily Digest</A> • <A
style="TEXT-DECORATION: none"
href="mailto:biochar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe"
target=_blank>Unsubscribe</A> • <A
style="TEXT-DECORATION: none"
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/" target=_blank>Terms
of Use</A> • <A style="TEXT-DECORATION: none"
href="mailto:ygroupsnotifications@yahoogroups.com?subject=Feedback+on+the+redesigned+individual+mail+v1"
target=_blank>Send us Feedback </A></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0px 0px 25px; WIDTH: 160px; BACKGROUND: #fff; FLOAT: right; CLEAR: none">
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="COLOR: #fff; CLEAR: both; FONT-SIZE: 1px">.</DIV></DIV><IMG
src="" width=1 height=1> <BR>
<DIV
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 0px; COLOR: #fff">__,_._,___</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Stoves
mailing list<BR><BR>to Send a Message to the list, use the
email address<BR><A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR><BR>to
UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web
page<BR><A
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR><BR>for
more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see
our web site:<BR><A href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"
target=_blank>http://www.bioenergylists.org/</A><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR
clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Paul A. Olivier PhD<BR>26/5 Phu Dong Thien
Vuong<BR>Dalat<BR>Vietnam<BR><BR>Louisiana telephone:
1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)<BR>Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in
Vietnam)<BR>Skype address: Xpolivier<BR><A
href="http://www.esrla.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.esrla.com/</A> </DIV></DIV>
<P></P>
<HR>
<DIV>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Stoves
mailing list<BR><BR>to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<BR><A href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR><BR>to
UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<BR><A
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR><BR>for
more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our
web site:<BR><A href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"
target=_blank>http://www.bioenergylists.org/</A><BR><BR></DIV>
<P></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Stoves
mailing list<BR><BR>to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<BR><A href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR><BR>to
UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<BR><A
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR><BR>for
more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our
web site:<BR><A href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"
target=_blank>http://www.bioenergylists.org/</A><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR
clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Paul A. Olivier PhD<BR>26/5 Phu Dong Thien
Vuong<BR>Dalat<BR>Vietnam<BR><BR>Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124
(rings Vietnam)<BR>Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<BR>Skype
address: Xpolivier<BR><A href="http://www.esrla.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.esrla.com/</A>
</DIV></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Stoves
mailing list<BR><BR>to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<BR><A href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR><BR>to
UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<BR><A
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR><BR>for
more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
site:<BR><A href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"
target=_blank>http://www.bioenergylists.org/</A><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR
clear=all><BR>-- <BR>***<BR>Dr. A.D. Karve<BR>Trustee & Founder
President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<BR><BR>
<P></P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Stoves
mailing list<BR><BR>to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<BR><A href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR><BR>to
UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<BR><A
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR><BR>for
more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
site:<BR><A href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"
target=_blank>http://www.bioenergylists.org/</A><BR><BR>
<P></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Stoves
mailing list<BR><BR>to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<BR><A href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR><BR>to UNSUBSCRIBE
or Change your List Settings use the web page<BR><A
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR><BR>for
more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
site:<BR><A href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"
target=_blank>http://www.bioenergylists.org/</A><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR
clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Paul A. Olivier PhD<BR>26/5 Phu Dong Thien
Vuong<BR>Dalat<BR>Vietnam<BR><BR>Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124
(rings Vietnam)<BR>Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<BR>Skype address:
Xpolivier<BR><A href="http://www.esrla.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.esrla.com/</A>
<P></P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Stoves mailing
list<BR><BR>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<BR><A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR><BR>to UNSUBSCRIBE or
Change your List Settings use the web page<BR><A
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR><BR>for
more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
site:<BR><A href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"
target=_blank>http://www.bioenergylists.org/</A><BR><BR>
<P></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Stoves
mailing list<BR><BR>to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<BR><A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR><BR>to
UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<BR><A
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR><BR>for
more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
site:<BR><A href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/"
target=_blank>http://www.bioenergylists.org/</A><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR
clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Paul A. Olivier PhD<BR>26/5 Phu Dong Thien
Vuong<BR>Dalat<BR>Vietnam<BR><BR>Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings
Vietnam)<BR>Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<BR>Skype address:
Xpolivier<BR><A href="http://www.esrla.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.esrla.com/</A>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Stoves mailing
list<BR><BR>to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<BR>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<BR><BR>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change
your List Settings use the web
page<BR>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<BR><BR>for
more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
site:<BR>http://www.bioenergylists.org/<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>