<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">All,<br> Here it is as an attachment.<br> Bob<br><br>--- On <b>Mon, 4/8/13, Paul Anderson <i><psanders@ilstu.edu></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Paul Anderson <psanders@ilstu.edu><br>Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] Understanding FUEL EFFICIENCY vs Energy efficiency<br>To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>Cc: "Kevin" <kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca>, biochar@yahoogroups.com, "Hugh McLaughlin" <wastemin1@verizon.net>, "Bob Fairchild" <solarbobky@yahoo.com><br>Date: Monday, April 8, 2013, 2:25 AM<br><br><div id="yiv1122228153">
<div>
<div class="yiv1122228153moz-cite-prefix">Dear Kevin, Crispin and all,<br>
<br>
We are in agreement. <br>
<br>
"Stove Testing" is an expression that has different meaning to
different people. WBT is one of the tests of stoves. Just like
we want to have the Safety analysis reported. <br>
<br>
Kevin's list of questions should be part of a Table of Stove
Characteristics that includes price, etc etc etc. I have
not seen such a table since I posted a Cookstove Matrix in March
2006. Here is the description and the link, but I cannot see the
actual matrix. Erin or Tom, can you find it?<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1122228153moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/stove-matrix">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/stove-matrix</a></blockquote>
Anyway, the point is that we need these kinds of consolidations of
the many factors.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="yiv1122228153moz-signature">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1122228153moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1122228153moz-txt-link-abbreviated" target="_blank" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 4/8/2013 12:40 AM, Kevin wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><font face="Arial">Dear Paul</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">I would like to suggest a different way of
looking at things.... look at a stove through the eyes of the
customer.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">(The "Customer" is the person or
Organization that pays the Manufacturer for the Stove.)</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">The fundamental question should be: "What
does the Customer want?"</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Does the Customer want the stove to
produce biochar?</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Does the Customer want the stove to have
the least fuel input to accomplish a stated task?</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Does the Customer want to minimize
products of combustion vented into the living space?</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Does the Customer want the stove to
provide a space heating benefit for the stove user?</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Does the Customer want a stove that
requires extended burn times between refuelling, and a minimum
of attendance?</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Does the Customer want a single firing
rate throughout the burn, OR, a "Two Level Firing Rate
capability, OR a large range of firing capabilities?</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">etc....</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">"Efficiency" is basically a measure of
"Resource Input to accomplish a desired task"</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">It is not the purpose of "testing" to
promote a particular technology or philosophy, but rather, to
measure the effectiveness of accomplishing a given task of
importance to the Customer..</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">"The Customer is the King." Proper Testing
Protocols should allow a Customer to test a range of stoves,
under a variety of circumstances, so that he will be able to
select the stove that best meets his requirements.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Best wishes,</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Kevin</font></div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;
PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px;">
<div style="FONT:10pt arial;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4;
"><b>From:</b> <a rel="nofollow" title="psanders@ilstu.edu" ymailto="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=psanders@ilstu.edu">Paul
Anderson</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial;"><b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" ymailto="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of
biomass cooking stoves</a> ; <a rel="nofollow" title="wastemin1@verizon.net" ymailto="mailto:wastemin1@verizon.net" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=wastemin1@verizon.net">Hugh McLaughlin</a> ; <a rel="nofollow" title="solarbobky@yahoo.com" ymailto="mailto:solarbobky@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=solarbobky@yahoo.com">Bob Fairchild</a> ; <a rel="nofollow" title="biochar@yahoogroups.com" ymailto="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=biochar@yahoogroups.com">biochar@yahoogroups.com</a>
</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial;"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 08,
2013 1:50 AM</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial;"><b>Subject:</b> [biochar]
Understanding FUEL EFFICIENCY vs Energy efficiency</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span style="DISPLAY:none;"> </span>
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<div id="yiv1122228153ygrp-text">
<p>Dear Stovers and Biochar makers,<br>
<br>
We are NOT sufficiently emphasizing that
TLUDs/char-maker stoves can use <br>
fuel other than stick wood. When burning briquettes and
pellets and <br>
cobs and shells (which most other stoves cannot burn
very well), we are <br>
NOT burning tree-sourced fuel.<br>
<br>
Crispin correctly says that a kg of wood in and
pyrolyzed is no longer <br>
wood, and therefore is FUEL used, and that relates to
FUEL Efficiency. <br>
TLUDs can consume more wood because they are converting
some of that <br>
wood into charcoal. That is different from ENERGY
efficiency, which <br>
can allow calculations for the energy in the charcoal
that is not used.<br>
<br>
Especially in char-making stoves, energy efficiency is
better than the <br>
fuel efficiency IF USING WOOD. But if the fuel is not
wood, then the <br>
WOOD-FUEL efficiency is 100% (none was burned in the
cooking of the <br>
meal), and the ENERGY efficiency might be very good,
while the FUEL <br>
efficiency (burning ag residues, dung, etc) might be low
in comparison <br>
with other stoves, but no trees were cut or burned.<br>
<br>
About the above, there will need to be some education
given to the stove <br>
community (including GACC and manufacturers and
governments). WHAT fuel <br>
is burned does make a difference if FUEL efficiency is
an important <br>
criteria when evaluating stoves.<br>
<br>
Just because wood is the traditional fuel used in stove
testing does not <br>
mean that stoves that can also burn OTHER biomass should
be judged on <br>
the WOOD-FUEL efficiency calculations. For places like
Haiti, Rwanda, <br>
and many large zones of numerous large countries, to be
able to cook <br>
WITHOUT FOREST DEGRADATION should be a major reason for
choosing TLUD <br>
stoves.<br>
<br>
Having written about this here does not mean that the
message has <br>
reached the decision makers and those who report test
results on <br>
cookstoves. And the makers of "stick-wood-burning
stoves" are unlikely <br>
to want to tell this message to others.<br>
<br>
Because the GACC is about stoves AND FUELS, I hope that
proper <br>
recognition can be given in the discussions and
decisions about the <br>
stoves that can have 100% avoidance of cutting wood, if
that is important.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"<br>
Email: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:psanders%40ilstu.edu" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=psanders%40ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072<br>
Website: <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1122228153moz-txt-link-abbreviated" target="_blank" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a><br>
<br>
</p>
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