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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Dear Paul</FONT></DIV>
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style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=psanders@ilstu.edu href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">Paul Anderson</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=crispinpigott@gmail.com
href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com">Crispin Pemberton-Pigott</A> ; <A
title=biochar@yahoogroups.com
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com">biochar@yahoogroups.com</A> ; <A
title=rchiang@cleancookstoves.org
href="mailto:rchiang@cleancookstoves.org">Ranyee Chiang</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:46
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [biochar] Efficiencies regarding
wood, non-wood, and charcoal Re: [Stoves] Alternative to charcoal</DIV><FONT
face=Arial></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I posted to the list (copy below) an approach that I
feel would sort out the the difficulties you encounter when a reational
science based stove testing protocol is implemented. The fundamental problem
comes when one attempts to "force fit" all stoves into one category. Clearly,
there are fundamentally different stove types or technologies. No less a
person than Dr. Tom Reed has coined the concepts of "char producing", "char
burning" tar producing" and "tar burning" (Where "tar" refers to pyrolysis
gases)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>In my previous posting, I defined three fundamental
categories of stoves:</FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>1: A "Full Combustion Biomass stove", where all
fuel is intended to be burned to completion</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>2: A "Partial Combustion Biomass Stove", where char or
charcoal is a desired end product. (This charcoal can be subsequently used as
fuel, or as biochar.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>3: A "Charcoal Combustion
Stove."</FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>1: Examples of a "Full Combustion Biomass Stove"
would range from a 3 stone fire to a Rocket stove. The fundamental
characteriestics of such stoves are:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>* They produce tar</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>* They produce char</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>* They burn tar</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>* They burn char.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>2: The TLUD is an example of a "Partial Combustion
Biomass Stove. The fundamental characteristics of such a stove
are:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>* They produce tar</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>* They produce char</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>* They burn tar</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>* They <STRONG>DO NOT</STRONG> burn
char</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>3: An example of a "Charcoal Combustion Stove" would be
a Hibachi BBQ. The fundamental characteristics of such a stove are:
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>* They <STRONG>DO NOT</STRONG> produce tar</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>* They <STRONG>DO NOT</STRONG> produce char</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>* They burn tar (if tar remained in the
charcoal)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>* They burn char</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Clearly, the thee stove systems are fundamentally different. It is only
reasonable that different test protocols be adopted to highlight the features
for which each excel.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Clear also is the fact that some "End Users" (or Customers) do not want
residual charcoal, while others do indeed want a stove that produces charcoal,
either for subsequent use as fuel, or for use as biochar. "End Users" who do
not want residual charcoal should select a stove system from "Category 1",
while "End Users" who want a stove producing residual charcoal should select a
stove from "Category 2" </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>A stove is fundamentally a cooking or heating device. The simple fact of
the matter is that a stove producing char will require more input fuel
than one that burns it to completion, all other things being equal. A
"Category 1" stove is thus the best choice where the End user does not want
char in the ashpit. On the other hand, where teh End User does want char as a
"stove byproduct', then his best choice is a "Category 2" stove. It appears
that is some locations, the economics of char production are such that it will
actually pay for a ""Category 2" stove system.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>A good Testing Protocol for Category 2 stoves would be very helpful
to those wishing to have a source of char. The testing Protocol would show
which was the best producer of char, while still accomplishing the desired
cooking or heating function.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The good thing about science based tests is that they report the results
in numbers. They present "digitized results" rather than "fuzzy
wordage.".</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>No one stove technology is the panacea. The "House of Stoves" has many
rooms. Appropriate testing protocols will allow the Customer to choose the
stove system that will best do the job he wants done.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Would you agree that different testing Protocols should be established
for the fundamentally different stove systems?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Best wishes,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Kevin</DIV></FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV>
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<P>
<DIV class=moz-cite-prefix>Dear Crispin, Ron Larson, and Stovers with char
interests,<BR>On 4/9/2013 12:18 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:010201ce34e1$b563b6e0$202b24a0$@gmail.com type="cite"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
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<DIV class=WordSection1><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O></O></SPAN>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O> <snipped></O></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">If I put 1
kg of 15% moisture wattle (15.9 MJ/kg) into a TLUD stove and create 20% char
(20% of the moist mass) the net heat provided by the fire is 10 MJ/kg. The
heat available from the char is still 29.5 so the total is the difference
the bit between: 15.9-10 = 5.9 MJ.<O></O></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O></O></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">If someone
wants to switch from wood fuel to a ‘cleaner’ TLUD and that TLUD is not 1.5
times as efficient in transferring heat, their raw fuel consumption will
increase.<O></O></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O></O></SPAN><BR></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>The
numbers are correct, but the language is biased.
"If...switch from WOOD fuel..., their RAW fuel ..... " How
about saying<BR>"If switch from wood fuel stove to a TLUD that does not need
to use wood fuel, their wood fuel consumption could be
eliminated."
<BR><BR>Is the issue about WOOD or is it about efficiencies of devices (TLUDs)
that leave charcoal behind? Actually, both are
important, but the norms of reporting of stove testing with biomass fuels are
too intimately connected with wood because so many stoves are designed
as<B><U> only </U></B>wood burners. <BR><BR>Let's stop criticizing
or penalizing the TLUDs because they make charcoal. And the new testing
protocols/reports MUST have clarity of wording about efficiencies without the
innuendo that TLUDs lack efficiency because wood (if used) is turned into
charcoal.<BR><BR>Paul</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>*************************************</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=kchisholm@ca.inter.net
href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net">Kevin</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 09, 2013 11:54
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] Alternative to
charcoal</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Dear Dale</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>You raise excellent points about the desirability of
finding an "Alternative to Charcoal". I feel that the problem is both very
complex, AND very simple at the same time. The problem is very complex, when
dealt with, as a whole, but very simple when broken down into the various
facets of the issue that complicate it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>If we look at the "continuum" between wood as a fuel,
and charcoal as a fuel, we see that at the "Wood End" and the "Charcoal
End", there is a clear preference, need, or requirement for the respective
fuels. In the center, there is a "gray area", where either fuel can be
utilized, to greater or lesser advantage and disadvantage.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>The problem is somewhat further complicated by those
who see charcoal as a "climate change tool" and superimpose climate change
considerations on stoves, perhaps even to the degree of relegating the
fundamental heating and cooking aspects of a stove to a secondary level of
importance. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Everything starts with the biomass fuel... wood,
grasses, agricultural products or waste, etc. In the logic I am about to lay
out, I state that there are fundamentally three kinds of
stove:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>1: A "Full Combustion Biomass stove", where all
fuel is intended to be burned to completion</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>2: A "Partial Combustion Biomass Stove", where char or
charcoal is a desired end product. (This charcoal can be subsequently used
as fuel, or as biochar.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>3: A "Charcoal Combustion Stove."</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>In the interests of simplicity, I ignore "Charcoal
Retorts", because of their basic thermal inefficiency.... much of the
pyrolysis gas energy is simply vented. However, a retort that made use of
the pyrolysis gas heat could be termed a "Partial Combustion Biomass
Stove.'</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>A major advantage of this approach would be that it
would clearly categorize stoves, and as a consequence, would allow for three
different testing protocols.Each Testing protocol could be set up to best
capture the performance parameters that were of most importance to each
stove system.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Crispin's Proposed Stove testing Protocols are perhaps
best for "Full Combustion Biomass Stoves." Equivalently relevant protocols
could be developed for "Partial Combustion" and "Charcoal
stoves.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I feel that the process should be "Customer Driven."
If a Customer wants to burn charcoal as fuel, then that is his decision. Or,
if he wants to produce charcoal, for resale, or for use as biochar, or for
subsequent use as a fuel, then that also should be his decision. This is
where a good set of Testing Protocols would be really helpful... they would
allow the Customer to select the stove system (or systems) that best met his
needs.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Note also that when fundamental "performance
information" was available from the above three protocols, it would be very
easy to develop a spread sheet that factored in all the relevant
information, so that the Customer could make a rational decision on what
would be the best stove system for his particular
circumstances.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Best wishes,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Kevin</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>***********************</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
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