<div dir="ltr">Great conversations on Charcoal verses everything else. I can't understand how percentages can be the same for all and less than charcoal? <div style>What no one seems to be speaking about is the inefficiency of making charcoal in the 1st place? Cost of charcoal where there are no trees increases until you have another Easter Island and everyone dies off.</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>I have done enough tests to know that pellets, sticks branches do not all have the same density or percentage efficiencies as stated. Pellets (I have used switch grass made in Wisconsin not yet vetiver from Haiti) burn much longer, more steady and easier to adjust heat output. With our larger stoves they will burn for 4 hours and boil way more water than any charcoal stove I have ever seen! As a matter of fact for institutions who boil a lot of water don't use charcoal, they use 3-stone fires with fire wood, propane or recently some use rocket stove design.</div>
<div style>Vetiver grass will heal degraded land and can be pelletized. This will have to be done with manual labor trimming grass hedgerows and leaving grass lay to dry then carried to a portable hammermill, pelletizer and bagging operation with generator that is mounted on trailers that are pulled along closest roads.</div>
<div style>There is more than facts and figures when you see the severe problem of deforestation in places like Haiti.</div><div style><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Paul Means <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:paul@burndesignlab.org" target="_blank">paul@burndesignlab.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">Hi Crispin,</span></div><div>
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">In answer to your questions. I assumed that the cost of transportation, for bulk products like this will primarily be based on weight rather than volume. Therefore, in my analysis, the relative costs for transporting each of the different fuels is simply the </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">product of:</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"> 1. the relative energy density (MJ/KG)</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"> multiplied by</span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"> 2. the relative haul distance.(KM/MJ) to pick up a MJ of fuel. </span></div>
<div><br></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"> Sized & dried biomass (whether pellets, crumbled wood, dried chips, sticks, etc) has only 59% of the energy density of charcoal. </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">On the other hand, the relative haul distance for traditional charcoal, because the process is so inefficient and it consequently has to be hauled from a much wider area, is 3 times more than for sized & dried biomass. </span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">For the "alternative to charcoal" I assume that the market for this fuel being brought into the cities is developed on the basis of modern/new micro-gasifier / TLUD type stoves. It's assumed that the char is either burned in the TLUD (a few designs are coming out with this now) or the char is burned in a separate stove. I have assumed that this TLUD / Char Burning together has an overall efficiency of 40%. </span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">- Paul </span></div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"><div>
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"><br></span></div>Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 11:22:53 +0000</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">From: </span><a href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px" target="_blank">crispinpigott@gmail.com</a><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">To: "Stoves" <</span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">></span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">Subject: Re: [Stoves] Alternatives to charcoal - transportation &</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"> biochar</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">Message-ID:</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"> <798760741-1366284175-cardhu_</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">decombobulator_blackberry.rim.</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">net-357301314-@b5.c10.bise6.</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">blackberry></span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">
<br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">Content-Type: text/plain</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">
<br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">Dear Paul M</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">
<br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">Could you please clarify two things (I can't see the slides. I am in transit).</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">
<br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">Are you basing the transport on a volume basis on the assumption that a vehicle bearing a higher density fuel can carry more? Someone was talking like that.</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">
<br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">Next, I think you can (very) safely assume that any charcoal stove will deliver 1.5 times as much heat per available MJ into a pot. I aim higher than that but let's stick to average mediocre wood and charcoal stoves. A pretty ordinary charcoal stove will deliver 40% of the energy available to the pot.</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">
<br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">I don't know how that affects the outcome but it is the reality re the processed v.s. unprocessed fuels (char vs wood).</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">
<br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">Thanks</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">Crispin</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network</span><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br clear="all">
<div><br></div>-- <br><div>Paul M. Means</div>Research & Testing Manager<div>Burn Design Lab </div><div><a href="tel:%28253%29%20569-2976" value="+12535692976" target="_blank">(253) 569-2976</a> (mobile)</div><div><a href="http://www.burndesignlab.org/" target="_blank">http://www.burndesignlab.org/</a></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Arial"><font size="1">“In the whole of world history there is always only one really significant hour – the present…If you want to find eternity, you must serve the times.”<i> - </i></font></span><font size="1"><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';color:rgb(51,0,51)">Dietrich </span><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';color:rgb(51,0,51)">Bonhoeffer</span></font><br>
<div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(79,129,189)"><span style="color:rgb(79,129,189)"><a href="http://www.burndesignlab.org./" target="_blank">www.burndesignlab.org</a><b>.</b></span></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(79,129,189)"></span></p>
<p><i style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:13px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">This e-mail and any attachment contain information which is private and confidential and is intended for the addressee only. If you are not an addressee, you are not authorized to read, copy or use this e-mail or any attachment. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and then destroy it. </i>
</p></div></div>
</font></span></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
<a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>