<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>Ron,<br><br></div><div>Today I met a mycologist from Saigon who wants to make large quantities of rice hull biochar. His plan is to load this biochar with plant nutrients and AM fungal spores. When I asked what he planned to do with the syngas he would be generating, I immediately saw that he had no thought this through. His intention (like that of so many people) was simply to make biochar.<br>
</div></div><br></div>Today I sent him an email that read as follows:<br><br><i>It was so good meeting you again.<br>Here is a YouTube video of my gasifier:<br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnM5Itk7wlQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnM5Itk7wlQ</a><br>
<br></i><div><i>I can design for your research and biochar production center gasifiers of any
size. But the ideal would be to use syngas (gasifier gas) in the place of
bottled gas. When we replace bottled gas with syngas, we, no doubt, can
get the highest possible value for the syngas. Making electricity from
syngas would cost as much as $100,000 US in gasifier, gas filtration and
other equipment. And such a costly venture would make relatively little
money. How can you compete with cheap hydroelectric or cheap coal? But since syngas can provide the same high-quality heat as bottled
gas, there is a fairly unlimited market before you. Very large
quantities of biochar could be generated as a by-product of burning
syngas in the place of bottled gas.<br></i>
<i><br>So the ideal would be to find several small businesses in Saigon that are now
burning bottled gas. You could show them how to eliminate the use of
bottled gas by means of small-scale gasification. They would get their
gas for virtually nothing compared to what they are spending now, and
you could set up a business arrangement with each producer where you
could get their biochar for free. It's a big win for both sides.<br></i>
</div><div><i><br></i></div><i>Also please confirm to me in writing what you were
saying today about AM fungi not growing in a liquid medium such as we
see in hydroponics and aquaponics.</i><br><br></div>Thanks.<br></div>Paul Olivier<br><div><div><br></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 9:52 AM, Ron <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>Paul and list:</div><div><br></div><div> Thanks for a very complete response. This is to hope Crispin will respond fully.</div>
<div>If so, I ask him three more to add to yours</div><div><br></div><div> a. why he has chosen to NOT join the sister biochar lists, given the heavy emphasis there as well in char-making stoves.</div><div><br></div>
<div> b. whether much of his knowledge on biochar has come from WUWT. If not what source (i am asking for a few specifics -not generalities) has he for his statement below</div><div class="im"><div><span><blockquote type="cite">
<div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-CA"><div><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">There have been many claims made for biochar which, based on what I read and hear from people who read much more broadly, that don’t stand up to close scrutiny.</span></p>
</div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></span></div></div><div> c. Does he see the connection I do between his being a "climate denier" and being a skeptic on biochar?</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div>
<br></div><div>Ron</div></font></span><div><div class="h5"><div><br></div><div><br>On Apr 21, 2013, at 5:25 PM, Paul Olivier <<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">See comments below.<br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 1:13 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com" target="_blank">crispinpigott@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-CA"><div><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Dear Jeff<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks for that contribution.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">The point of Paul’s description is that in the circumstances where he is, it works. It works on several levels and it will probably continue to work for a long time.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">The scenario was discussed on this list several times before, going back years, but there was nowhere that all the ingredients were present. One of the things that makes the rice hull char attractive is the existence, on a big scale apparently, of land that benefits from the addition of the char, and growing of crops that benefit from it.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">There have been many claims made for biochar which, based on what I read and hear from people who read much more broadly, that don’t stand up to close scrutiny. </span></p>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Crispin, I take issue with this statement. The biochar research that I have been involved with (that is, biochar from my gasifiers) has been done in three different countries, and it involved seven universities. More than 20 experiments have been carried out, and in none of these experiments did biochar have negative effects. Contrary to what you might believe, this research does stand up to close scrutiny. These people are not just reading about biochar, but they are actually doing biochar research. I know many of these researchers, and they are not engaged in deceit. They are trying to help poor farmers understand the benefits of biochar.<br>
</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-CA"><div><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">The same holds for permaculture </span></p>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>What's wrong with permaculture? <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-CA">
<div><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">and improved stove and lots of things, so there is nothing ‘special’ about char, it is just that people get enthusiastic about something and wish it were universally true.</span></p>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Crispin, it is hard for me to believe that you actually wrote this!<br>How do you know that that there is nothing special about biochar?<br>Is this your field of expertise?<br>
Have you actually been involved in biochar research?<br>I strongly suggest that you read the following: <br><br><a href="https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Biochar/Agronomy_Carter%20et%20al%202013%2002%2017.pdf" target="_blank">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Biochar/Agronomy_Carter%20et%20al%202013%2002%2017.pdf</a><br>
<a href="http://www.lrrd.org/public-lrrd/proofs/lrrd2501/chha25008.htm" target="_blank">http://www.lrrd.org/public-lrrd/proofs/lrrd2501/chha25008.htm</a><br><a href="http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd23/2/siso23032.htm" target="_blank">http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd23/2/siso23032.htm</a><br>
<a href="http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd24/2/siso24026.htm" target="_blank">http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd24/2/siso24026.htm</a><br><a href="http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd24/2/siso24039.htm" target="_blank">http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd24/2/siso24039.htm</a><br>
<a href="http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd24/2/siso24034.htm" target="_blank">http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd24/2/siso24034.htm</a><br>
<a href="https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Biochar/Biochar%20utilization%20in%20Rice%20crop%20on%20Tuk%20Vil%20Luvisol.pdf" target="_blank">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Biochar/Biochar%20utilization%20in%20Rice%20crop%20on%20Tuk%20Vil%20Luvisol.pdf</a><br>
<a href="http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd24/11/leng24199.htm" target="_blank">http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd24/11/leng24199.htm</a><br><br>If you really want to understand the benefits of biochar, please read this book:<br><a href="https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Biochar/Johannes%20Lehmann%2C%20Stephen%20Joseph-Biochar%20for%20environmental%20management_%20science%20and%20technology.pdf" target="_blank">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Biochar/Johannes%20Lehmann%2C%20Stephen%20Joseph-Biochar%20for%20environmental%20management_%20science%20and%20technology.pdf</a><br>
<br></div><div>The people who wrote and edited this book are not charlatans. They are not deceitful. They are as good in their science as anyone could possibly be. <br></div><div>Crispin, the moment you start doing biochar research of your own, then you might have something serious to say in this regard.<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-CA"><div><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">No problem, we can live with filters on information to sift out what is beneficial and in what circumstances the claims how true. Independent investigation will support it if it is.</span></p>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Then do the independent investigation yourself. <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-CA"><div><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">As I understand if, the Japanese have being doing this the longest and they are very circumscribed about what claims are made for biochar. </span></p>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Some of the best biochar research was done by the Japanese (Ogawa et al) back in the early 90's. They showed how biochar positively impacts the growth of AM fungi. This is explained in the book by Lehmann and Joseph.<br>
</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-CA"><div><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">It is particular soils, particular crops and particular treatment of the char (temperature, species) that are in combination, what gives improved results. This theme constantly appears in the literature. As has been pointed out, just randomly putting char into soil can have negative consequences – it depends on the soil conditions. The last thing we need is a case of the char causing more harm than good while claims are made that it is improving things. The stove community should be working with agricultural trials experts.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">I read in the past that adding rice hull ash to rice fields is beneficial – maybe because the silica is extra-available, don’t know. Not my field. </span></p>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>If this is not your field, then on what authority do you base your statements about rice hull biochar or rice hull ash?<br></div><div>Again, I challenge you: do the research, as Preston, Leng and Shackley have done.<br>
</div><div>What upsets me here is that I know well some of the people who have been conducting research with rice hull biochar.<br></div><div>They know agriculture quite well, they have impeccable scientific credentials, and they, unlike you, are experts in this field.<br>
</div><div>Then you come along, without any basis in fact, and question their research as not being scientific.<br></div><div>Wow! <br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-CA"><div><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">I am just glad we have a working example of using gas and char that makes economic sense. </span></p>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It only makes economic sense, Crispin, if biochar plays a positive role in promoting plant and animal growth. If biochar does not play a positive role, we might as well burn it.<br>
<br></div><div>Thanks.<br></div><div>Paul Olivier<br></div><div><br></div><div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-CA">
<div><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div><p><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Regards<span><font color="#888888"><u></u><u></u></font></span></span></p>
<span><font color="#888888"><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Crispin<u></u><u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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