<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Ron, Crispin, Jim and all,<br>
<br>
One stumbling point is the difference between the words Fuel
and Energy. We cook with fuels. We cook with energy. But
a piece (1 kg) of wood (fuel) can deliver 16 MJ of energy if
burned to ash or it can deliver (example) 11 MJ of energy PLUS
charcoal that represents 5 MJ of energy. <br>
<br>
The piece of wood is totally changed in both cases. But in the
second case, part of that wood has been transformed into charcoal,
which is certainly not wood. Wood consumed is 1 kg. Energy
consumed is 11 MJ (with charcoal left over). Two very different
results to be reported.<br>
<br>
And then there is the case of one kg of agricultural "refuse" that
is 16 MJ if consumed totally, or 11 MJ plus charcoal if pyrolyzed,
and in NEITHER case was there any consumption of wood. Where
deforestation is an issue, stoves that can use (easily use)
agricultural refuse need to be distinguished from the wood
burners. <br>
<br>
Even when the stove testing is conducted with wood as the standard
fuel, the test RESULTS need to clearly reveal that wood did NOT
need to be burned.<br>
<br>
In the movies, "No animals were harmed in the production of this
film."<br>
For SOME cookstoves, "No wood was burned in the cooking of these
meals (or the conducting of these tests)."<br>
<br>
What happens to the charcoal (whether burned or as biochar or
otherwise lost) should not be the issue.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 4/22/2013 6:13 PM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:2087372561.1069936.1366672434151.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net"
type="cite">
<style type="text/css">p { margin: 0; }</style>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000">
<style>p { margin: 0; }</style>
<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000">Crispin,
Jim, and List<br>
<br>
See few comments below<br>
<br>
<hr id="zwchr"><b>From: </b><br>
<b>To: </b>"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org></a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Monday, April 22, 2013 8:47:51 AM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Stoves] FW: REQUEST for complete sets of
raw data of cookstove tests.<br>
<br>
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0mm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#0563C1;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#954F72;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoPlainText, li.MsoPlainText, div.MsoPlainText
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text Char";
margin:0mm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}
span.PlainTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Plain Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text";
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoPlainText">Dear Jim and Anyone watching</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">I won't have time to dig through the
messages on this thread that were in limbo. If something
is really important to someone, ask again.</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">With regard to the char remaining
and the wood that has been burned on one end (fuel left
over from tests) Harold Annegarn and I have a proposal for
how to deal with stoves that can use fuel remaining from a
previous burn. In principle, the test should be started
with the fuel left over from a previous test. In other
words a cooking task that is replicated a number of times
in which the fuel left over goes into the stove for the
subsequent task provides an opportunity to measure (quite
accurately) the raw fuel drawn from the pile.</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <b>[RWL1: I suggest that
any test has to account for stoves being used to BOTH
cook AND make char</b>. I don't sense you will concur
with this variation.<b> Or can you?</b></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><b> I believe that forcing the
reuse of char in many/most char-making stoves will not
be the way the char will normally be used - and
therefore will give erroneous results.</b><br>
</p>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>