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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Crispin and Kevin,<br>
<br>
You are happy to talk about Fuel efficiency, and use ENERGY
numbers. And then immediately discuss forests being destroyed.<br>
<br>
Please get past the equating of fuel with wood and trees.
Beating on that drum constantly is unscientific.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 4/24/2013 9:49 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Dear Kevin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">You analysis is
correct. When rating the performance of a stove from a fuel
use perspective, the chart is correct:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid black
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Two
stoves are being compared for "Efficiency". </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Given
facts from Tests:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
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style="width:337.0pt;border-collapse:collapse" width="449"
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<td
style="width:125.0pt;border-top:1.5pt;border-left:1.5pt;border-bottom:1.0pt;border-right:1.0pt;border-color:windowtext;border-style:solid;padding:0mm
0mm 0mm 0mm;height:14.25pt" width="167">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="width:58.0pt;border-top:solid windowtext
1.5pt;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:14.25pt"
width="77">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">STOVE
A</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="width:51.0pt;border-top:solid windowtext
1.5pt;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
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1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:14.25pt"
width="68">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">STOVE
B</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="width:51.0pt;border-top:solid windowtext
1.5pt;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
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width="68">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">STOVE
C</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="width:52.0pt;border-top:solid windowtext
1.5pt;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
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width="69">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">STOVE
D</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:13.5pt">
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:solid
windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext
1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:13.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Nature
of Fuel</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:13.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Ag.
Waste</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:13.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Ag.Waste</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:13.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Stickwood</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.5pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:13.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Stickwood</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:13.5pt">
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:solid
windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext
1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:13.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Fuel
Energy Supplied, MJ</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:13.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">10</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:13.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">15</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:13.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">10</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.5pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:13.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">15</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:13.5pt">
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:solid
windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext
1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:13.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Energy
to Cooking Pot, MJ</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:13.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">5</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:13.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">5</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:13.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">5</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.5pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:13.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">5</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:13.5pt">
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:solid
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1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:13.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Energy
in Char, MJ</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:13.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">0</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:13.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">5</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:13.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">0</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.5pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:13.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">5</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:13.5pt">
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:solid
windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext
1.5pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:13.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Stove
Efficiency, %</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.5pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:13.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">50.00%</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.5pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:13.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">33.33%</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.5pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:13.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">50.00%</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid
windowtext 1.5pt;border-right:solid windowtext
1.5pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 0mm;height:13.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">33.33%</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">If someone
is interested in the char, it can be reported. What Ron
is proposing, to add that heat energy available in the
char back into the mix, is akin to considering the
energy efficiency to be the fuel efficiency which is
precisely what created for us a problem in the first
place. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">The energy
value of the char came from somewhere. Consider a stove
that takes 2 tons of forest per year. If it produces ¼
of a ton of forest’s worth of energy in the form of
char, fine. Say so. But saying so does not reduce the
two tons of forest it takes. If you have (as you pointed
out) a second stove that can utilise the charcoal, then
that can be viewed as a ‘system’ by all and sundry, but
is still does not change the fact that Stove 1 takes two
tons of forest each year which is what the reported fuel
consumption should be. No smoke and mirrors.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Burying the
char as a soil amendment instead of burning it merely
takes us back to the two tons of forest per year
draw-down and returns it to the environment in an
(apparently) inert, solid form.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">What has
been happening that is wrong, in my view, is that stoves
that take off 3 tons of forest per year have been
getting credit for taking only one ton and proclaimed to
be ‘better’ and ‘more fuel efficient’ than a two-ton
stove. Plainly this is not the case and the test method
has to report the fuel consumption correctly. It is a
problem that the UNFCCC methodology does not handle this
well because it is being used for CDM trades.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Crispin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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