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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Stovers. I am seeking data
about TLUD stoves. I start with the response below to AD Karve.<br>
<br>
Dear AD,<br>
<br>
Nice website. <br>
<br>
Your Samuchit stove is a type of TLUD. What test results do
you have about it? ALL types of tests, including the CO and PM
emissions, please.<br>
<br>
It sells for US$43. Please tell us some production numbers,
etc.<br>
<br>
And lets try to get similar data about the Champion TLUD made by
Servals in Chennai.<br>
<br>
Data for the Quad 2 TLUD are already posted, but lacking CO and PM
testing (equipment was not functional at the time of the other
tests, so I will try to have that testing done when I am in Uganda
soon.)<br>
<br>
NOTE: At Stove Camp at Aprovecho 22 -26 April, the major thrust
will be about TLUD stoves, with use of the LEMS / PEMS etc to
collect comparative data and to search for ways to further improve
all TLUD stoves. I will be there as one of the camp leaders.
We want the Samuchit and Champion and other TLUDs there for for
some important exploratory testing. And we hope that many
Stovers will attend.<br>
<br>
Paul (I am Paul A. or Dr TLUD. There is also Paul M. - Paul
Means of Burn Labs, and also Paul O. in Vietnam with Rice Husk
TLUDs, and maybe some other Paul's who are on the Stoves Listserv
but not sending so many messages.)<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 4/27/2013 6:39 AM, Anand Karve wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CACPy7SfiwrnNHkgEuM=PkJuSS51LCGPJFcsRY5kFMx7wSjgQFw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>Dear Paul,</div>
<div>please have a look at our web site <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.samuchit.com/">www.samuchit.com</a> which
describes the cooking devices being offered by us. One of
our stoves called Sampada (which means wealth) gasifier stove
generates about 200g charcoal from 1 kg woody biomass. The
villagers can earn money by selling the charcoal to the village
blacksmith. Woody biomass in the form of stalks of cotton and
pigeonpea, shells and leaf raches of coconut, and woody pods of
various trees are available to the villagers free of cost. The
name Sampada was chosen for this stove because it
generates money by burning woody fuel that is available for
free. Our Sarai cooker is also a very popular cooking device.
Using the combination of the Sampada stove (for burning the
woody biomass) and the Sarai (meaning celebration) cooker for
burning the charcoal, the entire meal for a family of five can
be cooked by using just 1kg woody biomass. This of course does
not leave any charcoal for the soil. <br>
Yours</div>
<div>A.D.Karve</div>
<div> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 6:03 AM, Paul
Olivier <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>Paul Means,<br>
<br>
Rice hulls and rice straw are abundant in Asia, and in
many areas they are available for free or at very little
cost. If we were to go about designing a stove to
exploit this abundant biomass, should we design a stove
that only produces heat? Or should we design a stove
that produces both heat and biochar?<br>
<br>
If it can be demonstrated that the biochar produced by
this stove greatly enhances the growth of vegetables
such as mustard greens, water spinach and Chinese
cabbage, then the by-product of cooking a meal acquires
considerable value. Every time someone cooks a meal with
a stove that produces biochar, this person would be
earning money. It might not be a lot of money relative
to us, but believe me, it represents a lot of money for
the average Vietnamese, Cambodian or Laotian. The
average household in these three countries could produce
up to a kg of biochar per day which, already in this
area, has a value of about 30 cents US. If funding
agencies were to invest heavily in the kind of biochar
research that people such as Reg Preston and Simon
Shackley have been doing, then biochar would, no doubt,
acquire an even greater value.<br>
<br>
One ton of rice hull pellets sells in Saigon for about
$75 US. This one ton of pellets produces about 330 kgs
of biochar. This quantity of biochar has a value of
about $100 US. A biochar merchant could give pellets to
an urban household at zero cost in exchange for all of
the biochar produced from these pellets. This means that
the urban household would have its fuel free-of-charge.<br>
<br>
In the case of a rural household where undensified rice
hulls are abundant and often free, the household could
earn enough money through the sale of biochar to pay for
the cook stove within six months. In one year this
household could earn about $120 US, which in many cases
here in Vietnam, is far more than a monthly wage. If the
cook stove is made out of high quality stainless steel,
then it would assure a steady and important stream of
income over many years.<br>
<br>
So if we were to go about designing a stove to exploit
the enormous tonnages of biomass available in Asia, what
should we do? If we design a stove that only produces
heat (with biochar being burned), when this heat
dissipates, there is nothing of value that remains. But
if we design a stove that produces both heat and
biochar, a by-product of considerable value remains, and
once incorporated into the soil, it greatly enriches the
soil and stays there for a very long time.<br>
<br>
I would urge funding agencies such as the GACC to pour
big money into biochar research throughout the whole of
Asia, especially in those regions where rice hulls, rice
straw and other forms of agricultural biomass are
abundant. They should disseminate the results of this
research to farmers so that these farmers might
understand the considerable value of biochar when
incorporated into the soil or fed to animals.<br>
<br>
Biochar could easily be the driving force behind
everything related to the financially sustainable
production and sale of cook stoves in a given area. <br>
<br>
</div>
Thanks.<br>
</div>
Paul Olivier<br>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div class="h5">On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 7:17 AM, Paul
Means <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:paul@burndesignlab.org"
target="_blank">paul@burndesignlab.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">Hi
Crispin,</span></div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">In
answer to your questions. I assumed that the
cost of transportation, for bulk products like
this will primarily be based on weight rather
than volume. Therefore, in my analysis, the
relative costs for transporting each of the
different fuels is simply the </span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">product
of:</span></div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px"> 1.
the relative energy density (MJ/KG)</span></div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px"> multiplied
by</span></div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px"> 2.
the relative haul distance.(KM/MJ) to pick up
a MJ of fuel. </span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
Sized & dried biomass (whether pellets,
crumbled wood, dried chips, sticks, etc) has
only 59% of the energy density of charcoal. </span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">On the other hand,
the relative haul distance for traditional
charcoal, because the process is so
inefficient and it consequently has to be
hauled from a much wider area, is 3 times more
than for sized & dried biomass. </span></div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">For
the "alternative to charcoal" I assume that
the market for this fuel being brought into
the cities is developed on the basis of
modern/new micro-gasifier / TLUD type stoves.
It's assumed that the char is either burned
in the TLUD (a few designs are coming out with
this now) or the char is burned in a separate
stove. I have assumed that this TLUD / Char
Burning together has an overall efficiency of
40%. </span></div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">-
Paul </span></div>
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px"><br>
</span></div>
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 11:22:53 +0000</span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">From: </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px"
href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com"
target="_blank">crispinpigott@gmail.com</a><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">To:
"Stoves" <</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">></span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">Subject:
Re: [Stoves] Alternatives to charcoal -
transportation &</span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
biochar</span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">Message-ID:</span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<798760741-1366284175-cardhu_</span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">decombobulator_blackberry.rim.</span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:net-357301314-@b5.c10.bise6">net-357301314-@b5.c10.bise6</a>.</span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">blackberry></span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">Content-Type:
text/plain</span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">Dear
Paul M</span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">Could
you please clarify two things (I can't see the
slides. I am in transit).</span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">Are
you basing the transport on a volume basis on
the assumption that a vehicle bearing a higher
density fuel can carry more? Someone was
talking like that.</span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">Next,
I think you can (very) safely assume that any
charcoal stove will deliver 1.5 times as much
heat per available MJ into a pot. I aim higher
than that but let's stick to average mediocre
wood and charcoal stoves. A pretty ordinary
charcoal stove will deliver 40% of the energy
available to the pot.</span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">I
don't know how that affects the outcome but it
is the reality re the processed v.s. unprocessed
fuels (char vs wood).</span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">Thanks</span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">Crispin</span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">Sent
from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless
Network</span><span><font color="#888888"><br
clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div>Paul M. Means</div>
Research & Testing Manager
<div>Burn Design Lab </div>
<div>(253) 569-2976 (mobile)</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.burndesignlab.org/"
target="_blank">http://www.burndesignlab.org/</a></div>
<div><span style="FONT-FAMILY:Arial"><font
size="1">“In the whole of world history
there is always only one really
significant hour – the present…If you
want to find eternity, you must serve
the times.”<i> - </i></font></span><font
size="1"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Times
New Roman';COLOR:rgb(51,0,51)">Dietrich </span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:'Times New
Roman';COLOR:rgb(51,0,51)">Bonhoeffer</span></font><br>
<div>
<p><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma,sans-serif;COLOR:rgb(79,129,189);FONT-SIZE:10pt"><span
style="COLOR:rgb(79,129,189)"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.burndesignlab.org./"
target="_blank">www.burndesignlab.org</a><b>.</b></span></span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma,sans-serif;COLOR:rgb(79,129,189);FONT-SIZE:10pt"></span></p>
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<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>
26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong<br>
Dalat<br>
Vietnam<br>
<br>
Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)<br>
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>
Skype address: Xpolivier<br>
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target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a> </font></span></div>
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***<br>
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Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology
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</pre>
</blockquote>
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