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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear AD (and to all Stovers),<br>
<br>
Thank you for your clarification about how the Sampada stove is
operated. This will help avoid confusion.<br>
<br>
Note to all: The operation of a stove is the true test of what
type of stove it is. <br>
<br>
I hope Priya can shed some light on how to compare (convert)
different measurements of CO and PM into something that can be
easily understood.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 4/28/2013 7:53 PM, Anand Karve wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CACPy7SdEiF-U560CNNYPTWUgjSs=bD1bShk_BZ+k0_+fZ6_aBQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>Dear Paul,</div>
<div>our Sampada stove is not really a TLUD stove. A small
quantity of wood is initially lighted in the fuel
holder and additional woody fuel is added to the fuel
holder from the top. The fuel burns from the botom up, It is
thus a bottom-lit updraft stove. We call it a gasifier stove. I
am copyingthis correspondence to Priya for answering your
questins about emissions.</div>
<div>Yours</div>
<div>A.D.Karve<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 9:25 PM, Paul
Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>Dear Stovers. I am seeking data about TLUD stoves.
I start with the response below to AD Karve.<br>
<br>
Dear AD,<br>
<br>
Nice website. <br>
<br>
Your Samuchit stove is a type of TLUD. What test
results do you have about it? ALL types of tests,
including the CO and PM emissions, please.<br>
<br>
It sells for US$43. Please tell us some production
numbers, etc.<br>
<br>
And lets try to get similar data about the Champion TLUD
made by Servals in Chennai.<br>
<br>
Data for the Quad 2 TLUD are already posted, but lacking
CO and PM testing (equipment was not functional at the
time of the other tests, so I will try to have that
testing done when I am in Uganda soon.)<br>
<br>
NOTE: At Stove Camp at Aprovecho 22 -26 April, the major
thrust will be about TLUD stoves, with use of the LEMS /
PEMS etc to collect comparative data and to search for
ways to further improve all TLUD stoves. I will be there
as one of the camp leaders. We want the Samuchit and
Champion and other TLUDs there for for some important
exploratory testing. And we hope that many Stovers will
attend.<br>
<br>
Paul (I am Paul A. or Dr TLUD. There is also Paul
M. - Paul Means of Burn Labs, and also Paul O. in Vietnam
with Rice Husk TLUDs, and maybe some other Paul's who are
on the Stoves Listserv but not sending so many messages.)<br>
<pre cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.drtlud.com/" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 4/27/2013 6:39 AM, Anand Karve wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Dear Paul,</div>
<div>please have a look at our web site <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.samuchit.com/"
target="_blank">www.samuchit.com</a> which describes
the cooking devices being offered by us. One of
our stoves called Sampada (which means wealth) gasifier
stove generates about 200g charcoal from 1 kg woody
biomass. The villagers can earn money by selling the
charcoal to the village blacksmith. Woody biomass in the
form of stalks of cotton and pigeonpea, shells and leaf
raches of coconut, and woody pods of various trees are
available to the villagers free of cost. The name
Sampada was chosen for this stove because it
generates money by burning woody fuel that is available
for free. Our Sarai cooker is also a very popular
cooking device. Using the combination of the Sampada
stove (for burning the woody biomass) and the Sarai
(meaning celebration) cooker for burning the charcoal,
the entire meal for a family of five can be cooked by
using just 1kg woody biomass. This of course does not
leave any charcoal for the soil. <br>
Yours</div>
<div>A.D.Karve</div>
<div> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 6:03 AM,
Paul Olivier <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>Paul Means,<br>
<br>
Rice hulls and rice straw are abundant in Asia,
and in many areas they are available for free or
at very little cost. If we were to go about
designing a stove to exploit this abundant
biomass, should we design a stove that only
produces heat? Or should we design a stove that
produces both heat and biochar?<br>
<br>
If it can be demonstrated that the biochar
produced by this stove greatly enhances the
growth of vegetables such as mustard greens,
water spinach and Chinese cabbage, then the
by-product of cooking a meal acquires
considerable value. Every time someone cooks a
meal with a stove that produces biochar, this
person would be earning money. It might not be a
lot of money relative to us, but believe me, it
represents a lot of money for the average
Vietnamese, Cambodian or Laotian. The average
household in these three countries could produce
up to a kg of biochar per day which, already in
this area, has a value of about 30 cents US. If
funding agencies were to invest heavily in the
kind of biochar research that people such as Reg
Preston and Simon Shackley have been doing, then
biochar would, no doubt, acquire an even greater
value.<br>
<br>
One ton of rice hull pellets sells in Saigon for
about $75 US. This one ton of pellets produces
about 330 kgs of biochar. This quantity of
biochar has a value of about $100 US. A biochar
merchant could give pellets to an urban
household at zero cost in exchange for all of
the biochar produced from these pellets. This
means that the urban household would have its
fuel free-of-charge.<br>
<br>
In the case of a rural household where
undensified rice hulls are abundant and often
free, the household could earn enough money
through the sale of biochar to pay for the cook
stove within six months. In one year this
household could earn about $120 US, which in
many cases here in Vietnam, is far more than a
monthly wage. If the cook stove is made out of
high quality stainless steel, then it would
assure a steady and important stream of income
over many years.<br>
<br>
So if we were to go about designing a stove to
exploit the enormous tonnages of biomass
available in Asia, what should we do? If we
design a stove that only produces heat (with
biochar being burned), when this heat
dissipates, there is nothing of value that
remains. But if we design a stove that produces
both heat and biochar, a by-product of
considerable value remains, and once
incorporated into the soil, it greatly enriches
the soil and stays there for a very long time.<br>
<br>
I would urge funding agencies such as the GACC
to pour big money into biochar research
throughout the whole of Asia, especially in
those regions where rice hulls, rice straw and
other forms of agricultural biomass are
abundant. They should disseminate the results of
this research to farmers so that these farmers
might understand the considerable value of
biochar when incorporated into the soil or fed
to animals.<br>
<br>
Biochar could easily be the driving force behind
everything related to the financially
sustainable production and sale of cook stoves
in a given area. <br>
<br>
</div>
Thanks.<br>
</div>
Paul Olivier<br>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 7:17 AM, Paul Means
<span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:paul@burndesignlab.org"
target="_blank">paul@burndesignlab.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px
solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex"
class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">Hi
Crispin,</span></div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">In
answer to your questions. I assumed
that the cost of transportation, for
bulk products like this will primarily
be based on weight rather than volume.
Therefore, in my analysis, the
relative costs for transporting each
of the different fuels is simply the </span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">product of:</span></div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px"> 1.
the relative energy density (MJ/KG)</span></div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px"> multiplied
by</span></div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px"> 2.
the relative haul distance.(KM/MJ) to
pick up a MJ of fuel. </span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
Sized & dried biomass (whether
pellets, crumbled wood, dried chips,
sticks, etc) has only 59% of the
energy density of charcoal. </span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">On the other hand,
the relative haul distance for
traditional charcoal, because the
process is so inefficient and it
consequently has to be hauled from a
much wider area, is 3 times more than
for sized & dried biomass. </span></div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">For
the "alternative to charcoal" I assume
that the market for this fuel being
brought into the cities is developed
on the basis of modern/new
micro-gasifier / TLUD type stoves.
It's assumed that the char is either
burned in the TLUD (a few designs are
coming out with this now) or the char
is burned in a separate stove. I have
assumed that this TLUD / Char Burning
together has an overall efficiency of
40%. </span></div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">-
Paul </span></div>
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px"><br>
</span></div>
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 11:22:53 +0000</span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">From: </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px"
href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com"
target="_blank">crispinpigott@gmail.com</a><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">To:
"Stoves" <</span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">></span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">Subject:
Re: [Stoves] Alternatives to charcoal -
transportation &</span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
biochar</span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">Message-ID:</span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<798760741-1366284175-cardhu_</span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">decombobulator_blackberry.rim.</span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:net-357301314-@b5.c10.bise6"
target="_blank">net-357301314-@b5.c10.bise6</a>.</span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">blackberry></span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">Content-Type:
text/plain</span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">Dear
Paul M</span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">Could
you please clarify two things (I can't
see the slides. I am in transit).</span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">Are
you basing the transport on a volume
basis on the assumption that a vehicle
bearing a higher density fuel can carry
more? Someone was talking like that.</span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">Next,
I think you can (very) safely assume
that any charcoal stove will deliver 1.5
times as much heat per available MJ into
a pot. I aim higher than that but let's
stick to average mediocre wood and
charcoal stoves. A pretty ordinary
charcoal stove will deliver 40% of the
energy available to the pot.</span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">I
don't know how that affects the outcome
but it is the reality re the processed
v.s. unprocessed fuels (char vs wood).</span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">Thanks</span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">Crispin</span><br
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">
<span
style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:12px">Sent
from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers
Wireless Network</span><span><font
color="#888888"><br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div>Paul M. Means</div>
Research & Testing Manager
<div>Burn Design Lab </div>
<div>(253) 569-2976 (mobile)</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.burndesignlab.org/"
target="_blank">http://www.burndesignlab.org/</a></div>
<div><span style="FONT-FAMILY:Arial"><font
size="1">“In the whole of world
history there is always only one
really significant hour – the
present…If you want to find
eternity, you must serve the
times.”<i> - </i></font></span><font
size="1"><span>Dietrich </span><span>Bonhoeffer</span></font><br>
<div>
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style="COLOR:rgb(79,129,189)"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
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26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong<br>
Dalat<br>
Vietnam<br>
<br>
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<fieldset></fieldset>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
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Institute (ARTI)<br>
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