<html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'><style>p { margin: 0; }</style><div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000"><style>p { margin: 0; }</style><div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000"><style>p { margin: 0; }</style><div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000">List and ccs<br><br> I am choosing this time to address the list instead of Kevin, as I now have concluded I have zero chance of convincing Kevin of anything on which we disagree. But I strongly feel it important to this list to correct his misinformation, so I persist a little longer.<br><br> Two items below (a. char from stoves and b. char in soil) to again show where Kevin is selectively performing his "scholarly" research<u>)<br><br><b>[RWL1a:</b></u> Re a. Kevin says about a third of the way down (relative to reporting E1, E2, and E3) <br> "
<i># I
have no problem with that, except...."</i>. <br> Then the rest of the response proves he sees a <b><u>big</u></b> problem in such reporting. <br><br><u><b>RWL1b:</b></u> Here is one last try at showing the value of reporting char production via E3 that I had not previously observed. That is that when one adds 5 MJ in his columns B&D he now agrees that the number E3 should be 5 MJ or 33% of the new 15 MJ. Surprisingly, it is also <b><u>100%</u></b> of the 5 MJ difference in input energy. No other number in his new Table 2 is near 100%.<br><br> I'm not surprised, after his comments below, that he doesn't feel 100% of a 50% input addition going to char in his sample stove is worth reporting. I do.<b><br></b><br><b><br>[RWL2: </b>b. More important to me is his confusion (?) about the relationship between char and soils. Below our dialog goes lke this:<br><br><div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">RWL from day before: <br> <i>"But
also because of the soil improvement value of char becoming biochar."<br></i></div><i>
</i><div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><i> </i><br>Kevin responds:<i><br></i></div><i>
</i><div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><i><strong> "#
What is "Biochar"? The IBI definition of "Biochar" is: </strong></i></div><i>
</i><div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><i><strong>" <em>Biochar
is a solid material obtained from the carbonisation of biomass.</em> " (First
line at </strong><a href="http://www.biochar-international.org/biochar" target="_blank"><strong>http://www.biochar-international.org/biochar</strong></a><br><br></i>[RWL3a. Here is that sentence and the <b><u>NEXT</u></b> of this "Definition" paragraph, with his strangely un-noticed "soil" emphasis added in underlining by me.<br><i><br></i> <i><b><em>"Biochar is a solid material obtained from the carbonisation of
biomass. Biochar may be added to <u>soils</u> with the intention to improve
<u>soil</u> functions and to reduce emissions from biomass that would otherwise
naturally degrade to greenhouse gases. "<br> <br></em></b></i><u><b>[RWL3b</b></u>: Maybe Kevin chose not to show that second sentence because then he would have to consider the next two sentences which apparently are an anathema to climate deniers:<br><em></em><i><em></em><b><em> <br> "Biochar also has appreciable
carbon sequestration value. These properties are measurable and
verifiable in a characterisation scheme, or in a carbon emission offset
protocol."</em><br></b><br><u><br></u></i><b><u>RWL4a:</u> </b>Kevin continued "proving" that IBI didn't understand the relationship between biochar and soil by next saying:<b><br></b><i><br></i></div><i>
</i><div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><i><strong>"From
</strong><a href="http://www.biochar-international.org/sites/default/files/IBI_Biochar_Standards_V1.1.pdf" target="_blank"><strong>http://www.biochar-international.org/sites/default/files/IBI_Biochar_Standards_V1.1.pdf</strong></a><strong> ,
we get a different definition of "Biochar":</strong></i></div><i>
<strong>" </strong><font face="TTE27FD3D0t00" size="3"><font face="TTE27FD3D0t00" size="3"><strong>6 Biochar is
a solid material obtained from the thermochemical conversion of biomass in
an</strong>
</font></font></i><p align="left"><i><font face="TTE27FD3D0t00" size="3"><font face="TTE27FD3D0t00" size="3"><strong> 7 oxygen-limited environment.</strong></font></font><strong>
" <br></strong></i></p><p><br><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'"><b>[RWL4b </b>Could Kevin have again been selective in this citation? Here is the full text of that section. I have underlined his use of the second sentence and then every use of "soil" for the next two sentences.<br></span></p><p><br><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'"></span></p><p><i><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'"><b>1 1 Scope</b></span></i></p><p><i><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'"><br>2 Issued by the International Biochar Initiative (IBI) and based on international consultation, this<br></span></i></p><p><i><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'">3 IBI Biochar Standards </span><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'">document is <b><u>intended to establish a common definition</u></b> for biochar,</span><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'"><br></span></i></p><p><i><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'">4 testing and measurement methods for selected physicochemical properties of biochar, and</span><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'"><br></span></i></p><p><i><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'">5 labeling standards for biochar materials.</span><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'"><br></span></i></p><p><i><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'"><br></span></i></p><p><i><u><b><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'">6 Biochar is a solid material obtained from the thermochemical conversion of biomass in an</span><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'"><br></span></b></u></i></p><p><i><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'"><u><b>7 oxygen-limited environment</b></u>. Biochar can be used as a product itself or as an ingredient within a</span><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'"><br></span></i></p><p><i><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'">8 blended product, with a range of applications as an agent for <u><b>soil</b></u> improvement, improved</span><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'"><br></span></i></p><p><i><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'">9 resource use efficiency, remediation and/or protection against particular environmental</span><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'"><br></span></i></p><p><i><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'">10 pollution, and as an avenue for greenhouse gas (GHG) mitigation.</span><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'"><br></span></i></p><p><i><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'"><br></span></i></p><p><i><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'">11 These IBI Biochar Standards provide a standardized definition of biochar and biochar</span><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'"><br></span></i></p><p><i><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'">12 characteristics related to the use of biochar as a <u><b>soil</b></u> amendment. ...................</span></i></p><p><i><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'"><br></span></i></p><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'"><b>[RWL4c: S</b>kipping the remaining portions of Scope on p 8, we get closer to the real meat on p 9:<br><br> <i> 1 </i></span><i><span style="font-size: 14.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE1C82BE0t00'">2 Terms and <u>Definitions</u></span><br><span style="font-size: 14.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE1C82BE0t00'"></span></i><div class="page" title="Page 9"><div class="layoutArea"><div class="column"><ol style="list-style-type: none"><li>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'">2 A complete list of terms and <b><u>definitions</u></b> is found, along with a list of acronyms, in Appendix 6. A
</span></i></p>
</li><li>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'">3 clear understanding of the defined terms is essential to the proper use of these IBI Biochar
</span></i></p>
</li><li>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'">4 Standards. <u><b>Defined terms are indicated with a double underline</b></u> in the text on the first instance
</span></i></p>
</li><li>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'">5 of the use of that term.
</span></i></p>
</li><li>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'">6 </span><span style="font-size: 14.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE1C82BE0t00'">3 Biomass Feedstock Material and Biochar Production
</span></i></p>
</li><li>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'">7 </span><span style="font-size: 13.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE1C82BE0t00'">3.1 General Feedstock Material Requirements
</span></i></p>
</li><li>
<p><i><span style="font-size: 11.000000pt; font-family: 'TTE27FD3D0t00'">8 The materials used as feedstocks for biochar production have direct impacts on the nature and </span></i></p>
</li></ol>
</div>
</div>
</div><p><b><i>[RW</i>L4d: </b> The word "biochar immediately above was the first place that double underlining appeared. I can't do the same in an e-mail. Going to Appendix 6 (p 38) as urged by the IBI authors in line 2 of p 9 above, one finds these two pertinent items:</p><p><br></p><p><i>"13<b> Biochar</b>: A solid material obtained from thermochemical conversion of biomass in an oxygen</i></p><p><i>14 limited environment. (IBI, 2012)</i></p><p><i><br>15 <b>Biochar Characteristics: </b>For the purposes of these standards, biochar characteristics are those<br>16 physical or chemical properties of biochar that affect the following uses for biochar: 1) biochar<br>17 that is added to <b><u>soils</u></b> with the intention to improve <u><b>soil</b></u> functions; and 2) biochar that is<br>18 produced in order to reduce emissions from biomass that would otherwise naturally degrade to<br>19 GHG, by converting a portion of that biomass into a stable carbon fraction that has carbon<br>20 sequestration value. (IBI, 2012)"<br><strong></strong></i></p><p><i><br><strong></strong></i></p><p><b><i><br><strong></strong></i></b></p><p><b>[<u>RWL5a</u>: </b>I<b> </b>didn't have the trouble Kevin did in getting to the above. Curious.<br></p><p><br></p><p>Kevin concluded his unusual and unexpected foray into the world of biochar, saying:</p><p><i><br></i></p><i>
</i><p><i><strong> "Even the International Biochar Initiative is reluctant to
make a solid connection between "char", "charcoal" and "soil".</strong></i></p> <br> <b>[<u>RWL5b</u>: </b> I suggest that a different reluctance can be observed in Kevin's selective choice of two biochar "defining" sentences. The question is why. <br><br> Can there possibly be a connection to climate denial? To the fact that stoves appear to have an important early role in proving the dual virtues of biochar in soil improvement and carbon sequestration?<br><b><br> </b>Anyone able to offer other explanations? Anyone know any other writer besides Kevin who has failed to understand that biochar is and always has been char placed in soil?<b><br><br>Ron</b>]<br><br><hr id="zwchr"><b>From: </b>"Kevin" <kchisholm@ca.inter.net><br><b>To: </b>"Ron Larson" <rongretlarson@comcast.net>, "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br><b>Cc: </b>"Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott@gmail.com>, "jetter jim" <jetter.jim@epa.gov><br><b>Sent: </b>Saturday, April 27, 2013 12:22:23 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Stoves] Last? Alternative to Charcoal<br><br>
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<div><font face="Arial">Dear Ron</font></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><b>From:</b>
<a title="rongretlarson@comcast.net" href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Cc:</b> <a title="crispinpigott@gmail.com" href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com" target="_blank">Crispin Pemberton-Pigott</a> ; <a title="jetter.jim@epa.gov" href="mailto:jetter.jim@epa.gov" target="_blank">jetter jim</a> ; <a title="kchisholm@ca.inter.net" href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net" target="_blank">Kevin</a>
</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 26, 2013 1:21
PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Last? Alternative
to Charcoal</div>
<div><br></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Kevin,
List +2 ccs<br><br>Kevin:<br><br> Thank for proving my
point.</div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>#
What point? Please be more specific so that I can address
it.<br></strong><br> Let me try again. This chain started
this week with Jim Jetter, describing what he will be reporting on ALL
stoves. </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong><strong># I
have no problem with that, except</strong> as follows:</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>1: The
more that is included in the report, the more costly, complex and potentially
confusing the report may become.</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>2:
Greater cost of the more complex tests and reports may discourage independent
testing</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>3: If
"Testing and Reporting" of "Char Making Stoves" costs more
than "Testing and Reporting for Full Combustion Stoves", it is not
fair or sensible to burden Full Combustion stoves with the extra cost and
complexity associated with the complexity and confusion of the "Char Making
Stove Report." Separate Reports for Char Producing and Full Combustion Stoves
would be more fair, and would reduce testing costs for the Full
Combustion stoves.</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> He will
reporting new efficiency quantities E2 (no char value) and E3 (only char
value), to go with the previous E1(both). I approved. You produced a
chart only dealing with E2 (no char value). I corrected your chart and
wondered why you left out E1 and E3. </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>#
OK... I show a copy of my original Table (1), followed by a copy of the new
Table (2) showing results reported as E1, E2, and E3.</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><img src="cid:8D77AD9AFA8F44709D357492AE337498@usera594fda0bf" alt="" align="bottom" hspace="0" border="0"></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Table 2</div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<table style="WIDTH: 330pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="439">
<colgroup>
<col style="WIDTH: 122pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 5961" width="163">
<col style="WIDTH: 53pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 2560" span="2" width="70">
<col style="WIDTH: 50pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 2450" width="67">
<col style="WIDTH: 52pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 2523" width="69">
</colgroup><tbody>
<tr style="HEIGHT: 14.25pt">
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 122pt; HEIGHT: 14.25pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1.5pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl25" height="19" width="163"><font size="2"> </font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 53pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1.5pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl26" width="70"><font size="2">STOVE A</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 53pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1.5pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl26" width="70"><font size="2">STOVE B</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 50pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1.5pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl26" width="67"><font size="2">STOVE C</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 52pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1.5pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1.5pt solid" class="xl27" width="69"><font size="2">STOVE D</font></td></tr>
<tr style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt">
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 13.5pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl28" height="18"><font size="2">Nature of Fuel</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl22"><font size="2">Ag. Waste</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl22"><font size="2">Ag. Waste</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl22"><font size="2">Stickwood</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1.5pt solid" class="xl29"><font size="2">Stickwood</font></td></tr>
<tr style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt">
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 13.5pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl28" height="18"><font size="2">Fuel Energy Supplied, MJ</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl23"><font size="2">10</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl23"><font size="2">15</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl23"><font size="2">10</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1.5pt solid" class="xl30"><font size="2">15</font></td></tr>
<tr style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt">
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 13.5pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl28" height="18"><font size="2">Energy to Cooking Pot, MJ</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl23"><font size="2">5</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl23"><font size="2">5</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl23"><font size="2">5</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1.5pt solid" class="xl30"><font size="2">5</font></td></tr>
<tr style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt">
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 13.5pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl28" height="18"><font size="2">Energy in Char, MJ</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl23"><font size="2">0</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl23"><font size="2">5</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl23"><font size="2">0</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1.5pt solid" class="xl30"><font size="2">5</font></td></tr>
<tr style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt">
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 13.5pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl28" height="18"><font size="2">E1</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl24"><font size="2">50.00%</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl24"><font size="2">50.00%</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl24"><font size="2">50.00%</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1.5pt solid" class="xl31"><font size="2">50.00%</font></td></tr>
<tr style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt">
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 13.5pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl28" height="18"><font size="2">E2</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl24"><font size="2">50.00%</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl24"><font size="2">33.33%</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl24"><font size="2">50.00%</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1.5pt solid" class="xl31"><font size="2">33.33%</font></td></tr>
<tr style="HEIGHT: 13.5pt">
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 13.5pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl32" height="18"><font size="2">E3</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl33"><font size="2">0.00%</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl33"><font size="2">33.33%</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid" class="xl33"><font size="2">0.00%</font></td>
<td style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1.5pt solid" class="xl34"><font size="2">33.33%</font></td></tr></tbody></table></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>#
Which Table is likely to be more helpful, transparent, and meaningful to
the Customer? Note also that E3 is meaningless. It is not "Charcoal Production
efficiency", and the concept of "Charcoal Production Efficiency" as calculated
by the proposed method is inherently wrong. What we thus have is as
follows:</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>E1
says all the stoves have the same efficiency and it doesn't matter what stove
the Customer selects.</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>E2
says stoves A and C are more efficient than stoves B and D</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>E3
says that Stoves B and D are more efficient than Stoves A and
D.</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong></strong> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>#
Including E1, E2, and E3 in one table is an enlightening expose.... What it
conclusively proves is that:</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>"Figures
never lie, but liars often figure."</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">You continue
to prove my supposition that is because you are a climate denier.</div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>#
Since you refuse to define a "Climate Denier", as requested below, I
categorically state that you are wrong, and additionally, I state for the
record that "I believe there is a climate, and I am therefore a climate
believer." <br></strong><br> Yes, it is true that I push this E3
issue because I am a "climate believer". </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>#
Well, I am a "Climate Believer" also, but that has nothing to do with "Stove
Testing Science". E3 is termed "Char Production efficiency", and is an
absolutely faulty concept as calculated in Table 2 above. If you support this
calculation, you are Believing in an inherently wrong, misleading,
and meaningless calculation.</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> But
also because of the soil improvement value of char becoming biochar.
</div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>#
What is "Biochar"? The IBI definition of "Biochar" is: </strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>" <em>Biochar
is a solid material obtained from the carbonisation of biomass.</em> " (First
line at </strong><a href="http://www.biochar-international.org/biochar" target="_blank"><strong>http://www.biochar-international.org/biochar</strong></a></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>From
</strong><a href="http://www.biochar-international.org/sites/default/files/IBI_Biochar_Standards_V1.1.pdf" target="_blank"><strong>http://www.biochar-international.org/sites/default/files/IBI_Biochar_Standards_V1.1.pdf</strong></a><strong> ,
we get a different definition of "Biochar":</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>" </strong><font face="TTE27FD3D0t00" size="3"><font face="TTE27FD3D0t00" size="3"><strong>6 Biochar is
a solid material obtained from the thermochemical conversion of biomass in
an</strong>
</font></font><p><font face="TTE27FD3D0t00" size="3"><font face="TTE27FD3D0t00" size="3"><strong>7 oxygen-limited environment.</strong></font></font><strong>
"</strong></p>
<p><strong> Even the International Biochar Initiative is reluctant to
make a solid connection between "char", "charcoal" and "soil".</strong></p>
<p><strong></strong> </p>
<p><strong>#We have an opportunity here to elevate "Stove Testing" to a clear,
accurate and transparent Science".</strong></p>
<p><strong>Why pervert "Stove Science" to support a
product ("Biochar") that even it's major supporter
(IBI) will not define clearly? With the broad and different definitions
of "Biochar" given above, how do we know if the char from char producing
stoves will get used for soil improvement? How do we even know that the char
produced by "char producing stoves" that you and others want to use for
"biochar" is economically valuable to the Farmer?</strong></p>
<p> </p></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">So you are
harming the Paul Olivier (soil) position, when you admire his ppt and
approach, but want to (apparently) only report E2. </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong># The
Tables above are neutral. They are neither harmful nor helpful to any stove
system. They simply report on the facts of the stove. The second Table,
however, is likely to be extremely confusing to all but the most sophisticated
reader. Although Paul Oliver wrote a posting primarily directed to Crispin, I
will take the liberty of replying to it, expanding on my views of his
excellent project.</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> To
repeat, there is no atmosphere-soil conflict with wanting a stove report to
include E3 (E1 already being there). I also like reporting E2,
since it supports the need for E3.</div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>#
This is your first use of the concept "atmosphere-soil conflict". Where was it
used before? Could you please explain it, and its relevance to the present
discussion?<br></strong><br> I still have no idea what you
and Crispin (also a climate denier) </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong># It
is "bad form" to badmouth people. You appear to be hiding behind loosey goosey
concepts, rather than to come out into the Clear Light of Science.
</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">want to
modify in what Jim Jetter proposes. My suspicion remains on
motivations when you say below:<br> <font face="Arial"><strong>"Stoves" and "AGW" are two very separate issues...
"</strong></font><br><br><strong># I wish to confirm the
correctness of your suspicion that "Stoves" and "AGW" are two very separate
issues. The "AGW Believer Folks" seem to be bent on "Building a Carbon
Credit Bridge" or a "Climate Bridge" that connects "AGW" and
"Stoves". This then opens the door to "proving" virtually anything they want
to prove. This is well illustrated by Table 2, which I would call
"The Pick Your Favourite Efficiency Report".</strong> <strong>That
is not very helpful for the Stove Buying Customer, who has his own
specific stove requirements and circumstances.</strong> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
I ask again, what do you and Crispin want to see reported by Jim?</div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong># My
views are my views, and I cannot speak for either Crispin or Jim Jetter. What
I would like to see in "Stove Test Reports" is a true, valid and
scientific report on the "True and Relevant Facts About Stoves." I want
to see "Stove Tests that Test Stoves" and which do not "muddy the water" with
external agendas and considerations. Lets start with a definition as a "Stove"
as follows:</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>===> 1:
A Stove is a device or system whose purpose is cooking and/or heating.
</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>There
are thus three basic types of stoves:</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>a:
Stoves whose primary purpose is cooking</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>b:
Stoves with a dual purpose of cooking AND heating</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>c:
Stoves whose primary purpose is space heating through warming of air
in the living space.</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>Stoves
that heat water for space heating or process requirements are considered
"boilers" and established test procedures are already in place.</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>Then
I would deal with the issues of greatest importance to most "real world
people." The fundamental issue of greatest concern to most "Real World Stove
people" is: </strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>===> 2:
"How much fuel must be supplied to the stove being tested , in order to
"get the desired job, or jobs, done"? </strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>This
"Fundamental Efficiency" is the "Fuel Efficiency", and it would be defined as
</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>"The
percentage of fuel energy supplied that is used to accomplish the
desired task, or tasks."</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong></strong> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>#Now,
if the stove being tested is intended to be PRIMARILY a "Cooking Stove", then
I would test for, and report on, the energy required to accomplish the
desired "cooking task". I would consider "water heating in a pot" as the
equivalent to "cooking water" </strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>===>
3:1 For such "Cooking stoves" I would define Fuel Efficiency as
</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>
("Energy into the Cooking Task") divided by ("Energy in the Fuel
Supplied") </strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>Note
also that there are different cooking tasks, and different stove
configurations, such as grills, griddles, "directly heated pot cookers",
indirectly heated pot cookers, oven cookers, etc.</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong></strong> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>#
Some stoves are required to do a "Dual Function", to cook AND to heat the
living space.</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>===>
3:2 For "Dual function Stoves", I would define fuel efficiency as
</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>
("Energy into the Cooking Task" + "Energy into the Living Space") divided by
("Energy in the Fuel Supplied")</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong></strong> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>#
Some stoves are intended for "Space Heating Only", and have no Cooking
Function. </strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>===>
3:3 For Space Heating Stoves, I would define fuel efficiency as</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>
("Energy into the Living space") divided by (Energy in the Fuel
supplied")</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong></strong> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong># The
competent "Stove Testing People", like Crispin and Jim, know all about
"Mass and Energy Balances", Siegert Combustion Testing, pollution
measurement, etc. They are quite capable of configuring tests and reports that
truthfully, meaningfully, clearly and repeatably report on the
performance of specific stoves. Such methods "Digitize the generalities, and
eliminate the loosey-gooseys". They enable the Stove Buyer to buy a stove to
accomplish what he wants to accomplish. Some stove systems will require
electric power, for fans, feeders, controls, conveyors, etc. A "Mass and
Energy Balance" would capture these energy inputs and show them appropriately.
Stack Gas Outputs would be measured for at least for CO2, temperature, and
particulate matter. </strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>#
Now, some people may want to buy a stove that produces Char. That is fine, if
that is what they want. They are the Customer, and if they want a stove that
produces char, they should be able to buy a stove that produces the char they
want. There should be a Test Protocol that shows how much charcoal it produces
when a given amount of input biomass is supplied to it. Now, since "all chars
are not equal", the tests that test a stove that produces char as a prime
purpose should incorporate additional tests that enable the Char Stove
Customer to select the best such stove from a selection. For example, some
Customers may wish to produce "Fuel Grade Char", or perhaps 'Smokeless Char"
or perhaps "Char for Subsequent Activation" or perhaps "char for Water
Treatment' or perhaps "Medicinal Grade Char", or perhaps "Char for
Agricultural Purposes", or perhaps "Carbon Credit Char for Climate
Amelioration Purposes". Since such stoves are intended primarily for char
production, I feel they should be in a class of their own. We define such a
"stove" as follows:</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>===> 4:
A "Char Making Stove" is a device or system whose purpose is the production of
Char and/or to provide a cooking and/or heating functions. </strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>#
Parameters that should be noted, measured and tested for could
include:</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>*
Fuel Type</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>*
Fuel Burn Rate</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>*
Productively used energy, such as for cooking, space heating, water heating,
process heat, etc</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>* Gas
sent to pipeline for use in a secondary system... external stove, kiln,
furnace, boiler, engine, etc</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>*
Energy sent to Flare stack</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>*
Stack Loss energy</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>* Shell
loss</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>*
Fuel Efficiency Calculation</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>*
Char Yield Calculation</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>*
Liquids yield, and energy content of liquids </strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>*
Grade of char produced,</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>*
Power consumption for fans, blowers, pumps, conveyors etc, if
relevant.</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>*
Etc.</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong># My
interest, in the context of "Stove Testing", is in stoves
intended primarily for cooking and/or heating, having maximum fuel
efficiency. This means "full combustion stoves", in that char production
is an energy loss, and a char producing stove cannot have as high a fuel
efficiency as a "full combustion stove" that utilizes the supplied fuel more
effectively. I am also interested, in other arenas, in:</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>*
Char Producing Stoves, whose primary purpose is Char Production and/or cooking
and/or heating</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>*
Gasifier stoves whose primary purpose is the production or "Heating grade Gas"
or "engine grade Gas" with or without the production of char.</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>*
Retort systems, whose primary purpose is the production of char, with/without
productive utilization of pryolysis gases.</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong></strong> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>In
summary then, there are many "Stove Systems" and many Customer Requirements
for utilizing various biomass products as a source of energy or a source of
char. Because of the differing factors of importance in various "classes of
stove systems", it is not sensible to attempt to assemble a single "One Test
Protocol Fits All" approach to stove testing. </strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong> </strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>#
Ron, you did not respond to my request for a Public Retraction as requested
below. Please retract your erroneous statements about my views and lack of
thoroughness. I consider your statements to be irresponsible Professional
Insults. Alternatively, please show where I made the stated oversights. I
would ask you to be more professional with expression of your alternative
views in the future.</strong></div><strong></strong></blockquote>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir="ltr"><strong><font face="Arial">Kevin Chisholm</font>
</strong><div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong><br></strong><br>Ron<br><br></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<hr id="zwchr">
</div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><b>From:
</b>"Kevin" <kchisholm@ca.inter.net><br><b>To: </b>"Discussion of
biomass cooking stoves" <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org>, "Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott@gmail.com>, "jetter jim"
<jetter.jim@epa.gov><br><b>Sent: </b>Friday, April 26, 2013 8:44:26
AM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Stoves] Last? Alternative to Charcoal<br><br>
</div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><font face="Arial">Dear Ron</font></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><b>From:</b>
<a title="rongretlarson@comcast.net" href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank">Ron</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Discussion of
biomass cooking stoves</a> ; <a title="kchisholm@ca.inter.net" href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net" target="_blank">Kevin</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 24, 2013 2:37
PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Last? Alternative
to Charcoal</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
<div>List. Cc Kevin</div>
<div><br></div>
<div> Sorry, no apologies on this one. </div>
<div id="DWT295"> </div></div></blockquote> <snip><br><br></blockquote>
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