<html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'>Frank and ccs<br><br> Thanks. No problems with the following. My concern was that you didn't believe the stove name should be released - and that seems not to be the case.<br><br> You don't address this below, but I think this list should ask if all 6 of your steps are now adequately covered by GACC, Jim Jetter, the WBT 4.2.1, and the other non-lab tests, that have many of the characterstics of 4.2.1 I think they are, with the possible exception of your step 5. I think time spent in tending to the stoves is an important stove variable and should fit there. I think from conversations with Jim that something new to report may be in the works there.<br><br> I also think that the stove developer should be able to specify or veto the fuel type (your 1 and 2). I don't know if that is always possible now. At a minimum Jm etal should announce in advance the types of fuels they can supply.<br><br> Last. I think I would prefer to see results for one stove use. Why 1000 people (or stoves? or families?)? Are you recommending for one day or one year. or? <br> You have emphasized fuel amounts (kg?) rather than energy efficiency. OK to do both?<br><br> Again, thanks.<br><br>Ron<br><br><hr id="zwchr"><b>From: </b>"Frank Shields" <frank@compostlab.com><br><b>To: </b>"Ron" <rongretlarson@comcast.net>, "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org>, "Paul Anderson" <psanders@ilstu.edu><br><b>Cc: </b>"Jim Jetter" <Jetter.Jim@epamail.epa.gov>, "Hugh McLaughlin" <wastemin1@verizon.net><br><b>Sent: </b>Monday, April 29, 2013 12:14:57 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>RE: [Stoves] Truth in stove reports Re: FW: REQUEST for complete sets of raw data of cookstove tests.<br><br><style><!--
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Ron and all,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><snip></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"> Can you tell us more of how to best get and use all of Jim's test results? Any precedents in the </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span">(your) testing world?</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br><span class="apple-style-span">Ron</span><span style="color:#1F497D"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Working from the big picture we are trying to: ‘reduce the Fuel required for living / 1000 people’. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">To study ways to do this we need to get organized and control the variables as we follow the energy from the fuel to the task. They are:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">1: Fuel</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">2: fuel manipulation</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">3: stoves</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">4) utensil</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">5) utensil manipulation</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">6) task</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">If we work on and improve one of the six then the total fuel required is reduced per the 1000 people. And working in each group is what we are doing but not in an organized manor. The stoves being tested that Paul is talking about is working within group three. Determining what makes one stove better than another. Making better briquettes is group one and stating fuel placed in a stove vertical works better than horizontal is group two. So to answer your question: I would like to see in the report that Jim produces 1) chemical and physical properties and a description of the fuel used during testing and 2) the frequency and manipulation of the fuel when added to each stove tested along with the 3) Stove (name and designer etc.) 4) utensils used, 5) water stirring frequency etc and 6) results of the Task. So NOT a BIG DEAL! </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Then if there are different results found at Stove Camp than what Jim reports we have a chance of looking through the conditions and, perhaps, determine the cause.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Also; When stove users determine one size fraction or moisture content or how best to introduce fuel to a stove makes a difference in results – send that info to the appropriate group. As that is a parameter that should be included in a test package. If it is observed in the ‘real world’ people will only do something one way – send that info to the group working on that section. That is when(if) we get these groups in place! </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I suggest Paul bring to Stove Camp a handful of biomass used at a location where he wants to sell his stove and make sure the report from Stove Camp reports the six parameters. He will be able to show results based on ‘real’ fuel.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Also: I don’t get into all this following the energy stuff and how to calculate in the char etc. If someone needs char and has a use for it – that is ‘required for living’. If when cooking the house overheats so the front door is kept open that is no different than cooking in winter and closing the front door – ‘required for living’. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Thanks for asking! Sometimes I think I am only talking to myself. : )</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Regards</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Frank</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Thanks </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Frank Shields</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">BioChar Division</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Control Laboratories, Inc. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">42 Hangar Way</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">Watsonville, CE 95076</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">(831) 724-5422 tel</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">(81) 724-3188 fax</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:frank@biocharlab.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:blue">frank@biocharlab.com</span></a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D">www.controllabs.com</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span></p></div></div></body></html>