<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"><base href="x-msg://221/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Kevin, the link should work fine if you copy the whole line, not only the blue part. otherwise it is all on the GIZ HERA cooking energy compendium, (I hope this link appears all in blue when I send it, otherwise cope the entire line into your browser)<div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://energypedia.info/index.php/GIZ_HERA_Cooking_Energy_Compendium">https://energypedia.info/index.php/GIZ_HERA_Cooking_Energy_Compendium</a></div><div><br></div><div>and thus it deals with stoves for COOKING, though not only for biomass fuels. It is intended to compile experiences from the field work of GIZ and others to assist people that are not constantly out there in the field to learn about realities of stove users.</div><div><br></div><div>I agree with Tom, that this list was intended for the discussion of biomass COOKstoves, so that people are able to cook food in order to survive, which is quite a vital need. And that is also what my day-to-day job deals with. I don't have time for academic discussions. most of the points you raise are mentioned in the first chapter of the compendium, please take a moment to read about 'Global stove diversity' in the chapter</div><div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://energypedia.info/index.php/GIZ_HERA_Cooking_Energy_Compendium#Cooking_Energy_Technologies_and_Practices">https://energypedia.info/index.php/GIZ_HERA_Cooking_Energy_Compendium#Cooking_Energy_Technologies_and_Practices</a> </div></div><div><br></div><div>regards Christa</div><div><br><div><div>Am 01.05.2013 um 07:57 schrieb "Kevin" <<a href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</a>>:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#ffffff" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><font face="Arial">Dear Christa</font></div><blockquote style="border-left-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px; "><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial; ">----- Original Message -----</div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="stoves@foodandfuel.info" href="mailto:stoves@foodandfuel.info">CHRISTA ROTH</a></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial; "><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</a></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial; "><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, April 30, 2013 2:09 PM</div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: arial; "><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Stoves] Stove Definition</div><div><br></div>Kevin, find a definition attempt on <a href="https://energypedia.info/wiki/Improved_Cookstoves_">https://energypedia.info/wiki/Improved_Cookstoves_</a>–_What_is_it_all_about%3F<div>it is a bit more specific than merriam-webster. </div><div> </div><div><font face="Arial"># Unfortunately, when I went there, the page is "under construction.'</font></div><div>Would you agree with the following:<br><div><br></div><div><h1 style="background-image: none; border-bottom-color: rgb(170, 170, 170); border-bottom-width: 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; text-align: left; padding-bottom: 0.17em; line-height: 30px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); margin: 0px 0px 0.6em; width: auto; font-family: arial, helvetica; clear: both; font-size: 22px; font-weight: normal; padding-top: 0.5em; "><span id="What_is_a_stove.3F" class="mw-headline">What is a stove?<br></span></h1><div style="z-index: auto; position: static; text-align: left; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 14px; ">The term ‘stove’ refers to a device that generates heat from an energy carrier and makes that heat available for the intended use in a specific application.</div><div style="z-index: auto; position: static; text-align: left; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 14px; "><font size="3"><strong># I think this is a good "broad definition" for a stove. However, it would, for example, also apply to a device that is more typically called a "boiler." In line with the Stoves Site, I was hoping to get a definition that was more restricted to Domestic or Residential cooking and space heating.</strong></font></div><div style="z-index: auto; position: static; text-align: left; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 14px; "><font size="3"></font> </div><div style="z-index: auto; position: static; text-align: left; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 14px; ">Cook stoves are made to transfer the generated heat to food, with the purpose to get it cooked and edible for human consumption. Thus ‘a stove’ features the <b>combination of heat generation and heat transfer</b> to a <u>cooking pot</u> if the food is cooked in a liquid, or a <u>griddle, plancha</u> etc. if the food is baked on a hot surface or roasted without liquid.</div><div style="z-index: auto; position: static; text-align: left; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 14px; "> </div><div style="z-index: auto; position: static; text-align: left; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 14px; "><font size="3"><strong># Efficiency of heat transfer is indeed very important A stove can be designed to accomodate a pot on the surface, a pot submerged within the stove, a 'two pot system", open flame grilling, a grill or griddle where food is baked or fried directly on teh stove top, where no pot is involved, etc. While a stove can be designed for maximum heat transfer to teh pot, there are many "legitimate stove designs" where the manufacturer has no control over heat transfer to the food or pot. I would suggest that "stoves are made to provide an opportunity for heat transfer to food, but it is up to the user in many cases to employ a suitable pot, wind screen, convection shield, to maximize heat transfer to the pot or food." Indeed teh Customer may want a stove with lower heat transfer heat efficiency for convenience, and may specifically want a "flat top stove", rather than a "submerged pot stove", simply because of a concern for the outside of teh pot becoming sooty. However, the Stove Designer may decide to offer a stove broviding direct heating of the pot, to serve markets wanting such a stove.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></strong></font><strong><font size="3">Expressed differently, he may offer some designs that attempt to maximize fuel utilization efficiency to sell into rthat market, and other designs, of lesser heat transfer efficiency, to provide the Customer with other wanted features.</font></strong></div><div style="z-index: auto; position: static; text-align: left; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 14px; "><strong><font size="3"></font></strong> </div><div style="z-index: auto; position: static; text-align: left; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 14px; "><strong><font size="3"># Note also that stoves intended for Tropic Regions may not want any shell loss from the stove, while in temperate or cool regions, heat loss from the cooking stove can be a decided advantage. I feel we should also include a "space heating function" in the general definition of a stove. Clearly "heat loss from a stove shell" in areas where the warmth is wanted should be included as an "efficiency bonus" to the stove, but if teh same stove was used in teh tropics, where the "heat loss was not welcomed', then it should be treated as a "Fuel efficiency loss."</font></strong></div><div style="z-index: auto; position: static; text-align: left; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 14px; "><strong><font size="3"></font></strong> </div><div style="z-index: auto; position: static; text-align: left; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 14px; "><strong><font size="3">Best wishes,</font></strong></div><div style="z-index: auto; position: static; text-align: left; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 14px; "><strong><font size="3"></font></strong> </div><div style="z-index: auto; position: static; text-align: left; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 14px; "><strong><font size="3">Kevin</font></strong></div><div style="z-index: auto; position: static; text-align: left; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 14px; "> </div><div style="z-index: auto; position: static; text-align: left; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); margin: 0.4em 0px 0.5em; font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 14px; "><strong><font size="3"></font></strong> </div><div><div><font face="Arial"></font><br></div><div>Am 30.04.2013 um 18:50 schrieb Kevin <<a href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</a>>:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff" style="widows: 2; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: medium; line-height: normal; font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div><font face="Arial">Dear List</font></div><div><font face="Arial"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial">Just what is a "stove?"</font></div><div><font face="Arial"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial">I would suggest that it is important that we all know what a "stove" is, when we attempt to determine the difference between a "good stove" and a "poor stove.'</font></div><div><font face="Arial"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial">When we ask Mr. Google, we get more than 7 million hits. However, the most common definitions seem to be typified by the one at</font></div><div><font face="Arial"> <a href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stove">http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stove</a></font></div><div><font face="Arial">" 1<span class="ssens"><em class="sn">a</em><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><strong>:</strong><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>a portable or fixed apparatus that burns fuel or uses electricity to provide heat (as for cooking or heating)<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>"</font></div><div><font face="Arial"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial">At<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a> , the stated purpose of the site is:</font></div><div><font face="Arial">"<font face="Times New Roman">Our site is dedicated to helping people develop better stoves for cooking with biomass fuels in developing regions.</font><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>"</font></div><div><font face="Arial"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial">What about accepting the Merriam-Webster definition for a "stove?"</font></div><div><font face="Arial"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial">Would anyone have a better definition for a "stove?"</font></div><div><font face="Arial"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial">Best wishes,</font></div><div><font face="Arial"></font> </div><div><font face="Arial">Kevin</font></div><div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><hr><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br></blockquote>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></body></html>