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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Fire tending is probably far more critical than
many consider at first glance.The ability to " set it and forget
it"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>to quote the TV add</FONT> <FONT size=2
face=Arial>is truly appreciated by many people places. Propane and kerosene
stove offer this while say rocket stove</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>does not. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Michael N Trevor</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Marshall Islands</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=frank@compostlab.com href="mailto:frank@compostlab.com">Frank
Shields</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">'Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 01, 2013 5:33
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] Truth in stove
reports Re: FW: REQUESTfor complete sets of raw data of cookstove tests.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Dear
Crispin,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"
lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d" lang=EN-CA><snip>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I think time spent in tending to the
stoves is an important stove variable and should fit there.
</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Time and attention
(attention demand) is an important metric for consumers. If we compare a
fuel-fire-and-forget stove that runs by itself with one that needs attention
every five minutes (for example a traditional 3-pot clay stove) there is a
world of difference for the user.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Frank –so we need to
report Attention Demand along with any test results..<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">></SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d">Yes – the WBT as my understanding it from time back (I
need to revisit) does specify many of the variables. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">This is important.
The WBT’s used to date specify much more than is necessary. The use of
‘normalisation’ means the variable is calculated to a normal, and does not
have to be ‘fixed’. For example we do not have to fix the temperature of the
day on which we test. Nor the temperature at which the water starts when put
into the pot. These things are ‘normalised’ by calculations that account
properly for the variations.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Many of the elements
of a test that are fixed can be handled correctly to allow for the use of, for
example, more appropriate pots such as the ones in normal use in the community
and ones for which a certain stove is designed.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d">Frank – Thanks for this. Perhaps the WBT does have more
usefulness to Real World (RW) interpretation that I first thought. I believe
we still need the RW fuel and ‘attention demand’ that simulates RW when
determining characteristics of a stove – at least report these values in the
report so others using the report can make decisions.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> I also think that the
stove developer should be able to specify or veto the fuel type (your 1 and
2). I don't know if that is always possible now.
</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">If you are trying to
classify the performance of stoves using the same fuel this is wise. If you
are testing the ability of stoves to burn a range of fuels, again it is
helpful to use known fuel types and they properties. Some stoves handle wet
wood much better than other so in a wet country, the comparison is important.
Some stoves are operated in a manner that the fuel is dried by the stove
before it is put into the fire. Some stoves can’t do that, some can.
Comparisons cannot be arbitrary. Wisdom is needed to construct a valid
assessment.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d">Frank – This is the difference between research data
and data that is RW and can be used for marketing. And if research data is
used for marketing there need be Cautions to the consumer.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">The whole point of a
testing toolbox is to have validated methods of dealing with such situations
so that once an experiment (comparison) is designed, it provides validated
results. You can’t just make up new metrics without check in they are valid.
Many problems arise from this.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d">Frank - Agree –some. There are so many variables (six
boxes) and within each of the six boxes are many more so we can’t test all
possible combinations for all stoves. But we can Control the variables in
their group (Box) by systematically organizing them and Report the condition
of the Test for each Box. So the matrices may differ but being reported
along with results a consumer (NGO?) can ‘read between the lines’ when making
decisions. And the NGO may request a set of stoves to be tested using one
specific condition from each of the six boxes to simulate the RW
location of the planned application. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d">>The stove developer should have no say as to how
this test (WBT) is conducted except for possible suggestions as to his
findings to what makes it work best.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Well, when designing
a stove one may need very particular information that is not required to get a
performance comparison with respect to cooking. If you are trying to improve
the heat transfer efficiency, you need a method of determining it accurately
because the different between two models may be slight, but consistent. A
regular WBT is a blunt instrument and cannot tell if one stove is 5% better
than another. A heat transfer efficiency test can,
however.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d">Frank – All in Research and behind the curtain. Not for
the public eyes. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d">>…Anything to give a clue or info where a change can
make the not-so-good stove the same as the good stove and the good stove
better. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">There are particular
metrics which provide valuable information about performance. Designers need
more information than policy managers.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d">Frank –Agree. All the research concludes with
‘Ten Steps to Making the Perfect Stove’. Otherwise what good is
it.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Regards<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Crispin<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Thanks<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d">Frank<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Thanks
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Frank
Shields<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">BioChar
Division<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Control
Laboratories, Inc. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">42 Hangar
Way<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Watsonville,
CE 95076<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">(831)
724-5422 tel<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">(81) 724-3188
fax<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><A
href="mailto:frank@biocharlab.com"><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue">frank@biocharlab.com</SPAN></A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">www.controllabs.com<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P>
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