<html><head></head><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>Crispin and list<br><br> Few inserts below.</div><div><br>On May 4, 2013, at 6:13 PM, "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com">crispinpigott@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dear Paul O<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">“</span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">It makes no sense to talk about a turn-down ratio of 4 to 1, if the time needed to turn down or turn up is not clearly defined.”<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Well I disagree there. A National standard is not in a position to tell manufacturers how quickly the power level should change. For your information, when a person is using a stove with a high thermal mass, the rate the heat gets into the pot changes very slowly and cook anticipate it by reducing the fire (or removing it completely as I have seen on one occasion) and adapt their behaviour to the product.</span></p></div></div></blockquote> [RWL: I can't conceive of any stove person wanting to dictate much of anything to a stove manufacturer, save possibly on safety. The question should be whether reporting comparative data measured in time units will be useful to a fair number of users of that data. Time to boil is already such a reported measurement, although not something that separates Groups 0 through 4. This response applies to the next exchange as well. Paul is talking time units, Crispin is not,<div><br></div><div> No need to respond either on the later exchanges below. </div><div><br></div><div> Different topic. M <span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "> We need to focus on the rankings of the four GACC groups. Right now a magic number is 45% for conversion efficiency for group 4. How to ensure that all stoves are treated fairly? I now think (after coversation with Dean Still) that the measurements can be made with sufficient accuracy. If not, why not? I still don't see TDR (or power level switching times) as rising to such a level that we slow down the process of Jim Jetter, Dean, etal If such data are easy to measure and report and useful to stove buyers or anyone, let's report them.</span></div><div><br></div><div> I still am waiting to hear any TDR numbers from any char - makers. I can conceive of some being better than 4:1. End Ron]<br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">></span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">If turning up and turning down cannot be done quickly and easily, it becomes exceedingly difficult to cook a meal. The ease and speed at which heat is adjusted should be part of a minimal set of standards.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I can only suggest you spend more time watching people cook with a wide range of appliances. In Maputo people cook on charcoal and use a stove that cannot be turned down at all, but cook they do!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">>The perfect stove in all respects is a modern gas stove. It's got everything: low emissions, marvelous adjustability, instantaneous start-up and shut down, and so forth. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I cook with gas and I concur is it very good. As for ‘perfect’ I recommend an induction cooker – widely available in China for $30-50 – which has, in Ontario, lower emissions, more marvellous adjustability, instantaneous start and stop, over 90% efficiency, and virtually no carbon footprint because we get so much of our electricity from water power. In Quebec the % is even higher. It is only since the large scale introduction of windmills with their episodic and unreliable output that the installation of gas-fired stations has been necessitated. We have to pay for them whether they are used or not (how efficient it that?).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">>In terms of ease of cooking, it beats any biomass stove out there. In terms of ease of cooking, why not use it as the standard against which all biomass stoves are judged? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If you can deliver the same cooking experience then you have a winner, hands down. No doubt about it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards<br>Crispin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Stoves mailing list</span><br><span></span><br><span>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address</span><br><span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page</span><br><span><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:</span><br><span><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a></span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>