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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Kevin,<br>
      <br>
      Of course different fuel preparation (such as chopping) is an
      option.   But I am referring to when such preparation is not very
      convenient or maybe is not even an option.   <br>
      <br>
      In my mind, there is mainly biomass fuel in the chamber, and the
      filler (charcoal or other) is relatively little.  Extreme cases
      can always be named and found to be lacking or difficult.   <br>
      <br>
      We deal with an imperfect world with imperfect stoves and
      imperfect fuels (except when significant processing takes place).<br>
      <br>
      More hands-on experimentation needs to be done with charcoal as a
      space filler before these debates of "what if..." can be of much
      use.<br>
      <br>
      Paul<br>
      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD  aka "Dr TLUD"
Email:  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>   Skype: paultlud  Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
      On 5/6/2013 10:53 AM, Kevin wrote:<br>
    </div>
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      cite="mid:704D9E73912141E6A1E2D3A669AE90EF@usera594fda0bf"
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            <div><font face="Arial">Dear Paul</font></div>
            <div> </div>
            <div><font face="Arial">Thanks very much for your detailed
                explanation.</font></div>
            <div> </div>
            <div><font face="Arial">Fundamentally, a "Perfect" TLUD will
                work perfectly if it has perfect fuel, perfect, required
                air volume, and perfect fan pressure (or stack vacuum)
                to deliver the perfect air flow.</font></div>
            <div> </div>
            <div><font face="Arial">Given that you have "off-standard"
                fuel, with greater average void space diameter, the
                pressure loss across the fuel bed will be lower. The fan
                or stack will thus deliver more air through the bed.
                Thus, you will get excess primary air flow, and if your
                secondary air porting was designed for a bed with a
                greater pressure drop, you will get less secondary air
                delivery; this will mess up your intended
                Secondary/Primary air ratio.</font></div>
            <div> </div>
            <div><font face="Arial">You can burn virtually any fuel in a
                TLUd, as long as it is uniform, and the stove was
                designed to handle it. Change the fuel significantly,
                and you need to change the design, to maintain the
                desired SA/PA ratio. If you "change the fuel", but don't
                change the design, then the only way to restore the
                system to "good operation" is to "modify the fuel" to
                one having similar a pressure drop across the bed,
                similar to one for which the system was designed. This
                is what you are effectively trying to do.</font></div>
            <div> </div>
            <div><font face="Arial">Assume, for example, that you have
                4" long pieces of straw as fuel. This will likely give
                you all the problems you note. Adding char can, in
                theory, help increase the bed pressure drop. However, I
                am guessing that it will be a real stinker to get the
                char particles distributed through the bed. There will
                likely be "too much" in one area, and "too little" in
                another. Channelling is thus very likely. What you will
                probably end up with is a fuel bed having non-uniform
                flow properties, because of the large differences
                between straw properties and char properties. Try mixing
                various percentages of char with the straw, in a mixing
                bucket, then try to take "mixed fuel" from the "mixing
                bucket" and place it in the stove. I am guessing that
                you should see the non-uniformity of the fuel bed even
                before you ignite it.</font></div>
            <div> </div>
            <div><font face="Arial">My guess is that your best bet would
                be to chop the straw, so that it is free-flowing. This
                alone will make life very much easier for the operator,
                and will enable a greater weight of fuel to be added to
                the stove. Longer burn times between re-fuelling. Play
                with the air flow, simply by obstructing the fan intake
                with a piece of paper or cardboard. Then see if you can
                get your usual good combustion. If not, then consider
                re-drilling or partially plugging, the SA air holes to
                get back to the correct PA/SA ratio for good combustion.</font></div>
            <div> </div>
            <div><font face="Arial">Is chopping the straw (or whatever
                the fuel is) an option you can consider?</font></div>
            <div> </div>
            <div><font face="Arial">Best wishes,</font></div>
            <div> </div>
            <div><font face="Arial">Kevin</font></div>
            <blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid;">
              <div style="FONT: 10pt arial;">----- Original Message
                ----- </div>
              <div style="FONT: 10pt arial;BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4;"><b>From:</b>
                <a moz-do-not-send="true" title="psanders@ilstu.edu"
                  href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">Paul Anderson</a> </div>
              <div style="FONT: 10pt arial;"><b>To:</b> <a
                  moz-do-not-send="true" title="biochar@yahoogroups.com"
                  href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com">biochar@yahoogroups.com</a>
              </div>
              <div style="FONT: 10pt arial;"><b>Cc:</b> <a
                  moz-do-not-send="true" title="kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca"
                  href="mailto:kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca">Kevin</a> ; <a
                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                  title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
                  href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion
                  of biomass cooking stoves</a> ; <a
                  moz-do-not-send="true" title="jss@bitmaxim.com"
                  href="mailto:jss@bitmaxim.com">James S. Schoner</a> ;
                <a moz-do-not-send="true" title="wastemin1@verizon.net"
                  href="mailto:wastemin1@verizon.net">Hugh McLaughlin</a>
              </div>
              <div style="FONT: 10pt arial;"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May
                06, 2013 11:23 AM</div>
              <div style="FONT: 10pt arial;"><b>Subject:</b> Re:
                [Stoves] [biochar] Charcoal as space filler in TLUD
                reactors</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Kevin,<br>
                <br>
                The objective of the filler is two-fold:    <br>
                <br>
                One reason is precisely to reduce the maximum flow of
                primary air.   Without resistance, too much primary air
                can race through the loose pile of biomass, reach too
                much of the biomass at the same time, and have an
                excessive fire without much control.   Control simply by
                a "gate" at the entrance of the primary air is usually
                insufficient.<br>
                <br>
                Second reason is that burning embers at the top of
                loosely packed fuel can sometimes fall to lower areas of
                the fuel bed and ignite the raw fuel there.   This
                defeats the process of the pyrolysis front that starts
                at the top and should progress slowly and uniformly
                downward through the bed of fuel.   That migrating
                pyrolytic front is THE most important and distinguishing
                feature of the TLUD stoves.   Ignition at the top and
                having updraft are not the single-most defining
                characteristics of TLUD stoves (even though that is what
                the name says).   Maybe I should have called it
                Migrating Pyrolytic Front Gasification  (or MPFG), but
                TLUD is the accepted name now.    [And Tom Reed always
                thanks me for getting away from the Inverted DownDraft
                (IDD) name that was not well understood.]<br>
                <br>
                Important note:  When the pyrolytic front correctly
                reaches the bottom of the batch of fuel, the combustion
                style changes to be Bottom-Burning UpDraft (call it BBUD
                if you must have an acronym, but note that at the start
                it was NOT IGNITED or lit at the bottom).   And there is
                no more migration/movement of a "gas-making" zone.   <br>
                <br>
                Also note:  When the batch has been pyrolyzed, the
                burning at the bottom is "char-gasification" and can be
                at forge temperatures that can damage the metal
                pieces.   There is still restricted flow of primary
                air.   The hot gases go upward.   IF additional raw
                biomass fuel is placed onto the top of that charcoal, it
                will be heated, dried, torrified, and eventually
                pyrolyzed, giving additional pyrolytic gases that can be
                combusted where the incoming secondary air enters.   But
                this is NOT operating as a TLUD stove (with MPFG).  
                This type of bottom-burning gasifier is well illustrated
                by the Oorja stove (former BP, now First Energy) in
                India.   It has a cast-iron cup in the bottom to protect
                the other metal parts, and that cup glows red-hot after
                continual use.   [Technical note:   Stove testing should
                measure separately the emissions during each of the
                different combustion modes instead of just reporting
                averages that include emissions from two or more
                combustion modes.   I think we can do some of that at
                this summer's Stove Camps at CREEC - Uganda and at
                Aprovecho - Oregon-USA where emissions equipment is
                available.]<br>
                <br>
                About terminology:   A bucket stove or mud stove or
                Rocket stove and many others can be ignited at the
                bottom of a container and they do have updraft, BUT they
                are NOT GASIFIER devices.   So the designation BLUD is
                not relevant.   UD and DD and TLUD are designations
                historically for gasifiers, which means that the gases
                are created in one place that is NOT the same place as
                the combustion or other use of the gases.<br>
                <br>
                Paul                               (James, please get
                this onto the   drtlud.com website in edited format.)<br>
                <br>
                <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD  aka "Dr TLUD"
Email:  <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>   Skype: paultlud  Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
                On 5/6/2013 1:17 AM, Kevin wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote
                cite="mid:CE8115A50C3D4466B6F218B260BA77E5@usera594fda0bf"
                type="cite"><span> </span>
                <div id="ygrp-text">
                  <div><font face="Arial">Dear Paul</font></div>
                  <div> </div>
                  <blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid;">
                    <div style="FONT: 10pt arial;">----- Original
                      Message ----- </div>
                    <div style="FONT: 10pt arial;BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4;"><b>From:</b>
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        title="psanders@ilstu.edu"
                        href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" moz="true">Paul
                        Anderson</a> </div>
                    <div style="FONT: 10pt arial;"><b>To:</b> <a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
                        href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
                        moz="true">Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</a>
                    </div>
                    <div style="FONT: 10pt arial;"><b>Cc:</b> <a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        title="kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca"
                        href="mailto:kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca" moz="true">Kevin</a>
                      ; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        title="biochar@yahoogroups.com"
                        href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" moz="true">biochar@yahoogroups.com</a>
                      ; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        title="jss@bitmaxim.com"
                        href="mailto:jss@bitmaxim.com" moz="true">James
                        S. Schoner</a> ; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        title="wastemin1@verizon.net"
                        href="mailto:wastemin1@verizon.net" moz="true">Hugh
                        McLaughlin</a> </div>
                    <div style="FONT: 10pt arial;"><b>Sent:</b> Sunday,
                      May 05, 2013 6:33 PM</div>
                    <div style="FONT: 10pt arial;"><b>Subject:</b> Re:
                      [Stoves] [biochar] Charcoal as space filler in
                      TLUD reactors</div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Kevin,<br>
                      <br>
                      The "charcoal as filler" is not about consuming
                      the charcoal.  </div>
                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"> </div>
                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font face="Arial">#
                        Sorry, I missed that.</font></div>
                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"> </div>
                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"> The charcoal is
                      "almost" non-active in the pyrloysis of the new
                      biomass.   This is a discussion about limiting air
                      flows with a filler that mostly is inactive in
                      environments that are at 650 C without oxygen. </div>
                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"> </div>
                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font face="Arial">#
                        Why do you feel it would be advantageous to
                        limit air flow with an inert filler? If the char
                        was significantly larger or smaller than the
                        biomass fuel, it could significantly increase
                        pressure drop through the bed, and would likely
                        reduce maximum flow. </font></div>
                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"> </div>
                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font face="Arial">#
                        Thanks.</font></div>
                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">     [ Note that I
                      avoid using the word "inert" in this discussion.]</div>
                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"> </div>
                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font face="Arial">Best
                        wishes,</font></div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid;">
                    <div> </div>
                    <div><font face="Arial">Kevin</font></div>
                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
                      <br>
                      Paul<br>
                    </div>
                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">
                      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD  aka "Dr TLUD"
Email:  <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" moz="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>   Skype: paultlud  Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com" moz="true">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
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