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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Kevin,<br>
<br>
Of course different fuel preparation (such as chopping) is an
option. But I am referring to when such preparation is not very
convenient or maybe is not even an option. <br>
<br>
In my mind, there is mainly biomass fuel in the chamber, and the
filler (charcoal or other) is relatively little. Extreme cases
can always be named and found to be lacking or difficult. <br>
<br>
We deal with an imperfect world with imperfect stoves and
imperfect fuels (except when significant processing takes place).<br>
<br>
More hands-on experimentation needs to be done with charcoal as a
space filler before these debates of "what if..." can be of much
use.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 5/6/2013 10:53 AM, Kevin wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:704D9E73912141E6A1E2D3A669AE90EF@usera594fda0bf"
type="cite">
<span style="display:none"> </span>
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<p>
</p>
<div><font face="Arial">Dear Paul</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Thanks very much for your detailed
explanation.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Fundamentally, a "Perfect" TLUD will
work perfectly if it has perfect fuel, perfect, required
air volume, and perfect fan pressure (or stack vacuum)
to deliver the perfect air flow.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Given that you have "off-standard"
fuel, with greater average void space diameter, the
pressure loss across the fuel bed will be lower. The fan
or stack will thus deliver more air through the bed.
Thus, you will get excess primary air flow, and if your
secondary air porting was designed for a bed with a
greater pressure drop, you will get less secondary air
delivery; this will mess up your intended
Secondary/Primary air ratio.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">You can burn virtually any fuel in a
TLUd, as long as it is uniform, and the stove was
designed to handle it. Change the fuel significantly,
and you need to change the design, to maintain the
desired SA/PA ratio. If you "change the fuel", but don't
change the design, then the only way to restore the
system to "good operation" is to "modify the fuel" to
one having similar a pressure drop across the bed,
similar to one for which the system was designed. This
is what you are effectively trying to do.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Assume, for example, that you have
4" long pieces of straw as fuel. This will likely give
you all the problems you note. Adding char can, in
theory, help increase the bed pressure drop. However, I
am guessing that it will be a real stinker to get the
char particles distributed through the bed. There will
likely be "too much" in one area, and "too little" in
another. Channelling is thus very likely. What you will
probably end up with is a fuel bed having non-uniform
flow properties, because of the large differences
between straw properties and char properties. Try mixing
various percentages of char with the straw, in a mixing
bucket, then try to take "mixed fuel" from the "mixing
bucket" and place it in the stove. I am guessing that
you should see the non-uniformity of the fuel bed even
before you ignite it.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">My guess is that your best bet would
be to chop the straw, so that it is free-flowing. This
alone will make life very much easier for the operator,
and will enable a greater weight of fuel to be added to
the stove. Longer burn times between re-fuelling. Play
with the air flow, simply by obstructing the fan intake
with a piece of paper or cardboard. Then see if you can
get your usual good combustion. If not, then consider
re-drilling or partially plugging, the SA air holes to
get back to the correct PA/SA ratio for good combustion.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Is chopping the straw (or whatever
the fuel is) an option you can consider?</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Best wishes,</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Kevin</font></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid;">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;">----- Original Message
----- </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4;"><b>From:</b>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" title="psanders@ilstu.edu"
href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">Paul Anderson</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;"><b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" title="biochar@yahoogroups.com"
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com">biochar@yahoogroups.com</a>
</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;"><b>Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" title="kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca"
href="mailto:kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca">Kevin</a> ; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion
of biomass cooking stoves</a> ; <a
moz-do-not-send="true" title="jss@bitmaxim.com"
href="mailto:jss@bitmaxim.com">James S. Schoner</a> ;
<a moz-do-not-send="true" title="wastemin1@verizon.net"
href="mailto:wastemin1@verizon.net">Hugh McLaughlin</a>
</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May
06, 2013 11:23 AM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;"><b>Subject:</b> Re:
[Stoves] [biochar] Charcoal as space filler in TLUD
reactors</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Kevin,<br>
<br>
The objective of the filler is two-fold: <br>
<br>
One reason is precisely to reduce the maximum flow of
primary air. Without resistance, too much primary air
can race through the loose pile of biomass, reach too
much of the biomass at the same time, and have an
excessive fire without much control. Control simply by
a "gate" at the entrance of the primary air is usually
insufficient.<br>
<br>
Second reason is that burning embers at the top of
loosely packed fuel can sometimes fall to lower areas of
the fuel bed and ignite the raw fuel there. This
defeats the process of the pyrolysis front that starts
at the top and should progress slowly and uniformly
downward through the bed of fuel. That migrating
pyrolytic front is THE most important and distinguishing
feature of the TLUD stoves. Ignition at the top and
having updraft are not the single-most defining
characteristics of TLUD stoves (even though that is what
the name says). Maybe I should have called it
Migrating Pyrolytic Front Gasification (or MPFG), but
TLUD is the accepted name now. [And Tom Reed always
thanks me for getting away from the Inverted DownDraft
(IDD) name that was not well understood.]<br>
<br>
Important note: When the pyrolytic front correctly
reaches the bottom of the batch of fuel, the combustion
style changes to be Bottom-Burning UpDraft (call it BBUD
if you must have an acronym, but note that at the start
it was NOT IGNITED or lit at the bottom). And there is
no more migration/movement of a "gas-making" zone. <br>
<br>
Also note: When the batch has been pyrolyzed, the
burning at the bottom is "char-gasification" and can be
at forge temperatures that can damage the metal
pieces. There is still restricted flow of primary
air. The hot gases go upward. IF additional raw
biomass fuel is placed onto the top of that charcoal, it
will be heated, dried, torrified, and eventually
pyrolyzed, giving additional pyrolytic gases that can be
combusted where the incoming secondary air enters. But
this is NOT operating as a TLUD stove (with MPFG).
This type of bottom-burning gasifier is well illustrated
by the Oorja stove (former BP, now First Energy) in
India. It has a cast-iron cup in the bottom to protect
the other metal parts, and that cup glows red-hot after
continual use. [Technical note: Stove testing should
measure separately the emissions during each of the
different combustion modes instead of just reporting
averages that include emissions from two or more
combustion modes. I think we can do some of that at
this summer's Stove Camps at CREEC - Uganda and at
Aprovecho - Oregon-USA where emissions equipment is
available.]<br>
<br>
About terminology: A bucket stove or mud stove or
Rocket stove and many others can be ignited at the
bottom of a container and they do have updraft, BUT they
are NOT GASIFIER devices. So the designation BLUD is
not relevant. UD and DD and TLUD are designations
historically for gasifiers, which means that the gases
are created in one place that is NOT the same place as
the combustion or other use of the gases.<br>
<br>
Paul (James, please get
this onto the drtlud.com website in edited format.)<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 5/6/2013 1:17 AM, Kevin wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CE8115A50C3D4466B6F218B260BA77E5@usera594fda0bf"
type="cite"><span> </span>
<div id="ygrp-text">
<div><font face="Arial">Dear Paul</font></div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid;">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;">----- Original
Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4;"><b>From:</b>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="psanders@ilstu.edu"
href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" moz="true">Paul
Anderson</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;"><b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
moz="true">Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</a>
</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;"><b>Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca"
href="mailto:kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca" moz="true">Kevin</a>
; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="biochar@yahoogroups.com"
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" moz="true">biochar@yahoogroups.com</a>
; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="jss@bitmaxim.com"
href="mailto:jss@bitmaxim.com" moz="true">James
S. Schoner</a> ; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="wastemin1@verizon.net"
href="mailto:wastemin1@verizon.net" moz="true">Hugh
McLaughlin</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;"><b>Sent:</b> Sunday,
May 05, 2013 6:33 PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;"><b>Subject:</b> Re:
[Stoves] [biochar] Charcoal as space filler in
TLUD reactors</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Kevin,<br>
<br>
The "charcoal as filler" is not about consuming
the charcoal. </div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"> </div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font face="Arial">#
Sorry, I missed that.</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"> </div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"> The charcoal is
"almost" non-active in the pyrloysis of the new
biomass. This is a discussion about limiting air
flows with a filler that mostly is inactive in
environments that are at 650 C without oxygen. </div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"> </div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font face="Arial">#
Why do you feel it would be advantageous to
limit air flow with an inert filler? If the char
was significantly larger or smaller than the
biomass fuel, it could significantly increase
pressure drop through the bed, and would likely
reduce maximum flow. </font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"> </div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font face="Arial">#
Thanks.</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"> [ Note that I
avoid using the word "inert" in this discussion.]</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"> </div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font face="Arial">Best
wishes,</font></div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid;">
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Kevin</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
<br>
Paul<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" moz="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com" moz="true">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
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<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
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