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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear all,<br>
<br>
Further thoughts about just one of Crispin's examples below:<span
style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<blockquote cite="mid:033801ce4b3b$14423500$3cc69f00$@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">></span><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">
3. How about giving us <b><u>ONE</u></b> paragraph in
4.2.2 to look at - and with especially new language on
how you would change that paragraph? Even if that has to
be a year or two from now.</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Crispin wrote:<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:033801ce4b3b$14423500$3cc69f00$@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">How is
this:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I give
you 5 litres of water in a pot and ask you to bring it to
a boil.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">You put
it in a fire and bring it to what we agree is ‘a boil’ by
which time 100 cc has evaporated.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I ask you
how many litres of water you have just boiled.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">What is
your answer?</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="color:#1F497D">That is an example of a conceptual
difference. The WBT says you boiled 4.9. An engineering
will say you boiled 5.0. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="color:#1F497D">Is this cognitive dissonance or
conceptual error?</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
And take this to the simmer stage, which typically is for 45 minutes
in the WBT. If the pot has not lid (and it does not have a lid in
the official testing), additional water will be boiled away.
Assume two cases, one with a very low fire and one with very high
fire (a common result of not having much of a turn-down ratio on
powerful stoves). <br>
<br>
In the low fire case, assume that there are still 4.5 liters in the
pot.<br>
In the high fire case, assume that there are only 3 liters in the
pot.<br>
<br>
In the final minutes, the difference in the amount of water in the
two pots is 1.5 liters, which is 33% of 4.5 liters and 50% of 3
liters. So, are you actually "simmering" 5 or 4.5 or 3 liters?
And how much actual ENERGY is needed to accomplish that task if the
amounts of water are so different? <br>
<br>
And which stove has the "advantage" (that is, looks the best in the
reported results) depending on what number(s) are used in the
analyses? (Will someone please do the math using the formulae,
just changing the number of liters from 5 to 4.5 to 3 so that we can
see the impact.) This is hypothetical, but educational. <br>
<br>
I think that this is the type of stuff that Erin was mentioning
about issues not well understood. If you have the answer WITHOUT
doing the 6 calculations, then you are quite special. But I will
still ask you to give me the numbers.<br>
<br>
Topic Stove type
Results 5 L 4.5 L 3 L
Comments:<br>
(L or H heat)
<br>
<br>
Results of <br>
A. Efficiency??? for LOW heat stove:
________ ______ _______ _______..........<br>
<br>
B. dito HIGH
________ ______ _______
_______..........<br>
<br>
<br>
C. Result ??? for LOW heat stove:
________ ______ _______ _______..........<br>
<br>
D. dito HIGH
________ ______ _______
_______..........<br>
<br>
And more???<br>
<br>
Sorry, I do not know the answers, and I am not qualified to do the
calculations. But I would like to know the results. Maybe more
than one "result" is correct and should be reported in the results
of the stove testing? If this is meaningless, I want to know why.<br>
<br>
Note: If the results of the above are NOT of interest to you, then
perhaps none of the discussion about testing protocols is of
interest to you. All of us will be grateful for these types of
questions being resolved.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<br>
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