<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><div id="yiv1925435639"><table id="yiv1925435639bodyDrftID" class="yiv1925435639" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td id="yiv1925435639drftMsgContent" style="font:inherit;font-family:arial;font-size:10pt;"><div id="yiv1925435639"><table id="yiv1925435639bodyDrftID" class="yiv1925435639" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td id="yiv1925435639drftMsgContent" style="font:inherit;font-family:arial;font-size:10pt;"><div id="yiv1925435639"><table id="yiv1925435639bodyDrftID" class="yiv1925435639" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td id="yiv1925435639drftMsgContent" style="font:inherit;font-family:arial;font-size:10pt;">We go round and round on this. Steam power is neither cheap, easy, simple, or foolproof. See "getting started with steam" parts one and two
at:<br>http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/aeindex.htm#steam<br> Only plans and some parts available from Green Steam. This is not a design that has been proven by the test of time.The engine is only
half the battle. The steam boiler is a critical (and potentially dangerous) part of the system.<br> Small commercially available steam boilers at:<br>http://steamboating.net/page7.html<br>(and yes the columns are poorly formatted)<br>and American
made steam engines at:<br>http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/mbsteam.htm<br>prices on order form:<br>http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/order.htm<br><br> and cheap Indian complete units at:<br>http://www.tinytechindia.com/steampowerplan.htm<br><p>("...These power plants are not automatic. Continuous
manual feeding of wood or biomass to boiler is essential....")</p>
<strong></strong><br> To put some numbers in perspective, TinyTech's 10 horsepower engine with a boiler and coupled to a 5 kilowatt generator costs $6600. (An American made version is probably twice as expensive) At 10% efficiency of
heat to electricity (probably a little high Mike Brown says 5-8% http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/steamart.htm ) you'll need 50 kW of heat which is roughly 25 lbs air dried biomass per hour. <br> Diesel electricity costs around 50 cents/kWh. The steam system will produce $2.50/hr of electricity, If the fuel is free and there are no other costs (labor, lubricants, maintenance, ...) after the system has run 51 hrs/wk for a year (2650 hrs) the average cost will be at 50 cents/kWh. (In your car 2650 hours at 40mph is 106,000 miles... zero maintenance?)<br><br> Yes, there's 45kW of "waste" heat but it is near the boiling point of water, so has limited uses, (not much use for cooking). <br> It could be used for drying with a radiator and fan or other heat exchanger system.<br><br> Bob the Curmudgeon<br><br><br><br>--- On <b>Wed, 5/15/13, Paul Anderson <i><psanders@ilstu.edu></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote
style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255);margin-left:5px;padding-left:5px;"><br>From: Paul Anderson <psanders@ilstu.edu><br>Subject: Re:
[Stoves] Green Steam Engine<br>To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"
<stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>Cc: "Robert Lerner" <bajarob@gmail.com>, "Ron Vanetten" <rsvanetten@hotmail.com>, "Bob Fairchild" <solarbobky@yahoo.com><br>Date: Wednesday, May 15, 2013, 2:09 AM<br><br><div id="yiv1925435639">
<div>
<div class="yiv1925435639moz-cite-prefix">Rob,<br>
<br>
Very interesting. <br>
<br>
Cost for unit and output?<br>
<br>
Some technical people who understand stoves should please comment
on this as functional or not. Cost is a secondary issue when
electrical power is small quantities are possible!!!<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="yiv1925435639moz-signature">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1925435639moz-txt-link-abbreviated">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv1925435639moz-txt-link-abbreviated" target="_blank" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 5/14/2013 1:54 PM, Robert Lerner wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Here is a link to a very cool innovative steam engine
design: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.greensteamengine.com/">http://www.greensteamengine.com/</a>. One
big advantage of this design is that it scales down very nicely,
suitable for small-scale TLUD burners. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I saw it in operation several years ago. At the time he was
looking for licensees. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Rob Lerner</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 10:54:57 -0700<br>
From: "Frank Shields" <<a rel="nofollow">frank@compostlab.com</a>><br>
To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"<br>
<span class="yiv1925435639Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;"> </span><<a rel="nofollow">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making<br>
Message-ID: <<a rel="nofollow">001e01ce5002$fb757a60$f2606f20$@compostlab.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Stovers,<br>
<br>
Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used
when making<br>
char that is just flared off. <br>
<br>
I'm thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one
needs 1) a<br>
very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep.
The generator<br>
is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.<br>
<br>
So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to
electricity? Perhaps<br>
not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the
gas need not<br>
be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine. <br>
<br>
Thanks <br>
Frank Shields<br>
BioChar Division<br>
Control Laboratories, Inc. <br>
42 Hangar Way<br>
Watsonville, CE 95076<br>
(831) 724-5422 tel<br>
(81) 724-3188 fax<br>
<<a rel="nofollow">mailto:frank@biocharlab.com</a>> <a rel="nofollow">frank@biocharlab.com</a><br>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.controllabs.com/">www.controllabs.com</a><br>
<br>
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