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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Dear Bryce</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I couldn't find his claim for 24% efficiency, but it seems
to be very high. I calculate that the useable energy in the steam is
less than 3%. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>His Horsepower claim also seems high. At 50 psig steam and
18 cubic feet per minute, I calculate the engine could develop a maximum of
about 2 HP, less than 1/2 of what he claims.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>System heat losses from the engine will be excessive.
Actual engine mechanical efficiency will probably be less than 50% </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Actual HP would likely be about 1 HP. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>18 Cubic feet per minute of 50 psig steam = 2.73 Lbs/Min
would require a net heat input to the steam of about 1,150 BTU/Lb or 3,140
BTU/Min, or 188,370 BTU/Hr. If the Boiler was 80% efficient, fuel input would be
about 235,463 BTU/Hr.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>If the Boiler had a Char Producing Burner, with say 50% of
the wood energy leaving as char, the input fuel energy would then have to be
about 471,000 BTU/Hr. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Wood input would have to be about 471,000/8,640 = 54.5
pounds per hour.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>That seems like a lot of bone dry wood for 1
HP.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Perhaps someone could review my calculations? I get
nervous when differences are that great. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Also... the Green Steam engine has a lot of moving parts.
The temperature of 50 psig steam is about 297 F. It is hard to imagine the
O-Rings lasting very long at these temperatures.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Best wishes,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Kevin</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=bnordgren@gmail.com href="mailto:bnordgren@gmail.com">Bryce L
Nordgren</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 15, 2013 4:56
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] Green Steam
Engine</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Products which turn biomass into heat efficiently tend to be
gasifiers. From TLUDs to 30kW+ hydronic heaters, the reason is the same:
gasifier-combustors tend to operate more cleanly than their non-gasifier
counterparts (woodstoves; open fires). <BR><BR>The GEK (not the GEK power
pallet) may well serve as a biomass->heat converter if one omits the gas
scrubber and uses their "flare" (or a better combustion/heat transfer chamber)
to boil water. Recycling the exhaust steam to preheat fuel, then heat water
would realize some degree of combined heat and power.<BR><BR>As to the steam
engine plans (not an actual engine)...A back of the envelope calculation,
using his low number of 24% efficiency for condensing and recycling steam back
to the boiler, yields something like 6.5 kg bone dry fuel/hour. The lower
number of 12% for not recycling the steam would double that.<BR><BR>The
relevant question is whether the wobbly shaft drive really adds to the
efficiency compared to traditional methods. Of course, you may also want to
find out whether the cheap off the shelf parts you are supposed to locate
yourself will handle 125psi, or whether the home version that runs off of a
pressure cooker isn't really capable of 10hp. Steam power isn't new, and
there's places that sell heavy castings with "ample safety factors".<BR>(<A
href="http://www.reliablesteam.com/RSE/RSEengines.html">http://www.reliablesteam.com/RSE/RSEengines.html</A>)<BR><BR>Bryce<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Kevin <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net"
target=_blank>kchisholm@ca.inter.net</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>Dear Crispin<BR>----- Original Message ----- From:
"Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <<A href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com"
target=_blank>crispinpigott@gmail.com</A>><BR>To: "Stoves" <<A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.<U></U>org</A>><BR>Sent:
Tuesday, May 14, 2013 6:40 PM
<DIV class=im><BR>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Green Steam Engine<BR><BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=im>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>Kevin,<BR>Is that not what GEK does??<BR>Crispin<BR>From
BB9900<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV>The GEK is a true Wood Gasifier, that takes
in wood chips, and converts them to "Engine Grade Gas". (Woodgas with very
low tar content.) The woodgas is sent to a Spark Ignition engine as fuel, to
generate shaft power. It does produce a small percentage of char (and ash),
but the char is pasically a waste product. Char production is fundamentally
undesirable in that it represents a waste of input energy.<BR><BR>The Green
Steam Engine runs on steam, as its energy source, to produce shaft power. To
get the steam, one needs a boiler, or a steam generating solar system. If a
boiler is used, the fuel can be anything that releases heat on combustion...
natural gas, fuel oil, biomass, etc. The fuel needs an appropriate "burner
system." A "Full Combustion Stove System" can be used, to maximize the
energy utilization of the fuel, or, where char production is wanted, a "Char
Producing Stove System" can be used.<BR><BR>Any further questions, please
let me know.<BR><BR>Best wishes,<BR><BR>Kevin
<DIV class=HOEnZb>
<DIV class=h5><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: "Kevin" <<A
href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net"
target=_blank>kchisholm@ca.inter.net</A>><BR>Sender: "Stoves" <<A
href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves-bounces@lists.<U></U>bioenergylists.org</A>><BR>Date:
Tue, 14 May 2013 18:35:42<BR>To: Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves<<A href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.<U></U>bioenergylists.org</A>><BR>Reply-To:
Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<BR><<A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.<U></U>org</A>><BR>Subject:
Re: [Stoves] Green Steam
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