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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>Dear Tom,<BR> <BR>Thanks for your clear explenation of <strong>TOTAL</strong> gasfication, like <strong>forced draft </strong>(WoodGas) and <strong>Pyrolytic Gasfication </strong>in a <strong>natural draft </strong>(Peko Pe) gasfication device.<BR> <BR><strong>Forced draft</strong> is typically acived by a fan and can also be considred as a <strong>down draft </strong>"system" too, as you say?<BR>It will consume the biomass "completely" - <strong>TOTAL gasfication</strong>.<BR> <BR><strong>Natural draft </strong>is an<strong> up draft </strong>"system", (of natural cources) and a <strong>Pyrolytic gasfication</strong>, and will leave us the char which again can be used as biochar or charcoal in any other charcoal device.<BR> <BR>Your experiment, about the tar on the pot in a <strong>natural draft pyrolytic gasifier</strong>, means that the tar still remains in the charcoal or it is burned off?<BR> <BR>What about the brown powdery substance on the towel (pot)?<BR> <BR>Moisture content in biomass, insufficent combustion and tar is a "well known" challange in any heating device, apart from boilers, as I know of.<BR>Does it means that even forced draft systems, will create tar in terms of beeing affected by a lower temperature in a chimney or cold water in a pot?<BR> <BR>So, you consider charcoal from a natural draft pyrolytic gasifier to be more suitable as biochar vs commercial charcoal? <BR> <BR>Enjoy your spring, planting season and most suitable biochar.............:)<BR> <BR>Thanks<BR> <BR>Otto<br> <BR><div>> CC: stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> From: tombreed2010@gmail.com<br>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 20:54:30 -0700<br>> To: stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Stoves Digest, Vol 33, Issue 19<br>> <br>> Dear Gasologist<br>> <br>> We should all distinguish clearly when discussing gasification between <br>> <br>> O Total gasification (eg an Imbert gasifier) that converts typically 98% ot the wood to WoodGas<br>> <br>> O Pyrolytic Gasification (TLUD and larger) which primarily gasifies the cellulose and pyrolyses the lignin to ~20% charcoal<br>> <br>> <><><><br>> <br>> The smoke from a TLUD stove will leave a deposit on a cold steel plate. I was interested in finding out how much "tar" was in the TLUD combustible gas before it is burned. <br>> <br>> I measured the "tar" production from a TLUD stove by putting a 4" galvanized elbow (wrapped in wetted towels) in the stove, and a 4 ft length of galvanized pipe followed by another elbow and chimney.<br>> <br>> Instead of the tarry deposit I expected, I obtained about 1% of a brown powdery deposit that was quite dry to the touch. <br>> <br>> I now wish I had saved it and analyzed it further. But I suspect a similar experiment on the Imbert gas would give a much higher "Tar" content, originating mostly from the lignin. <br>> <br>> <><><><br>> <br>> The charcoal resulting from the TLUD is generally a bonus, depending whether you have a use for it. The temperature of the flaming pyrolysis below the surface of the TLUD stove is between 500 and 700 C (measured with a Cr-Al thermocouple). For this reason, the charcoal produced is much more absorptive than commercial (<450 C) charcoal. <br>> <br>> This spring I am doing some planting tests on TLUD charcoal vs commercial charcoal. I'll report results. <br>> <br>> Onward to the future of charcoal...<br>> <br>> Tom Reed<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> Dr. Thomas B Reed <br>> Tombreed2010@gmail.com<br>> 508-353-7841<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> On May 14, 2013, at 11:00 AM, stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org wrote:<br>> <br>> > Send Stoves mailing list submissions to<br>> > stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> > <br>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> > <br>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>> > stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> > <br>> > You can reach the person managing the list at<br>> > stoves-owner@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> > <br>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>> > than "Re: Contents of Stoves digest..."<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > Today's Topics:<br>> > <br>> > 1. Using all the energy when char making (Art Donnelly)<br>> > 2. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Francesco Tortorici)<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> > <br>> > Message: 1<br>> > Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 09:50:30 -0600<br>> > From: Art Donnelly <art.donnelly@seachar.org><br>> > To: stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> > Subject: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making<br>> > Message-ID:<br>> > <CALyHvqpKvNNZg8VoS2QmGq4R3UUSi6UKC1wNuxpuq2oe_deg-w@mail.gmail.com><br>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>> > <br>> > Hi all,<br>> > Francesco, that's a nice looking setup. SeaChar has a couple of volunteers<br>> > (bi-lingual) in Costa Rica that want to do the same thing. Can we introduce<br>> > them to your friends and set-up an information exchange?<br>> > Also, I have attached a photo of our "in progress" TLUD heat exchanger. It<br>> > will be used to dry cacao beans.<br>> > Our goal is to make every BTU count.<br>> > Art Donnelly<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:56 AM, <stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org>wrote:<br>> > <br>> >> Send Stoves mailing list submissions to<br>> >> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >> <br>> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>> >> <br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >> <br>> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>> >> stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >> <br>> >> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>> >> stoves-owner@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >> <br>> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>> >> than "Re: Contents of Stoves digest..."<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Today's Topics:<br>> >> <br>> >> 1. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Francesco Tortorici)<br>> >> 2. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Tom Miles)<br>> >> 3. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Nariphaltan)<br>> >> 4. Continuous gasifier for household scale - experience sharing<br>> >> (Tuong DoDuc)<br>> >> 5. Re: Using all the energy when char making<br>> >> (rongretlarson@comcast.net)<br>> >> 6. Re: Continuous gasifier for household scale - experience<br>> >> sharing (Paul Olivier)<br>> >> 7. Re: Continuous gasifier for household scale - experience<br>> >> sharing (Tuong DoDuc)<br>> >> 8. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Nariphaltan)<br>> >> 9. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Tom Miles)<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> >> <br>> >> Message: 1<br>> >> Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 11:13:42 -0700<br>> >> From: Francesco Tortorici <francescot@gmail.com><br>> >> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>> >> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making<br>> >> Message-ID:<br>> >> <CAKiNAwXcz9yYu3Gh4=dbb8=<br>> >> z-3QuWps6+yWtrCGmwu-A8oKZDQ@mail.gmail.com><br>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>> >> <br>> >> Here is an example of a local mushroom grower that uses a TLUD to<br>> >> pasteurize straw. Previously he used propane, but now uses his gasifier<br>> >> stove. The biochar produced is "charged" with worm castings and worm tea<br>> >> that is also a "byproduct' of his mushroom business.<br>> >> <br>> >> This is an example of of having a need for the heat and the willingness to<br>> >> try something different. His operation is small and located on the<br>> >> Olympic Peninsula of Washington State.<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Frank Shields <frank@compostlab.com<br>> >>> wrote:<br>> >> <br>> >>> *Stovers,*<br>> >>> <br>> >>> * *<br>> >>> <br>> >>> * *<br>> >>> <br>> >>> *Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when<br>> >>> making char that is just flared off. *<br>> >>> <br>> >>> *I?m thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1) a<br>> >>> very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The<br>> >>> generator is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.*<br>> >>> <br>> >>> * *<br>> >>> <br>> >>> *So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity?<br>> >>> Perhaps not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the<br>> >> gas<br>> >>> need not be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine. *<br>> >>> <br>> >>> * *<br>> >>> <br>> >>> * *<br>> >>> <br>> >>> *Thanks*<br>> >>> <br>> >>> * *<br>> >>> <br>> >>> * *<br>> >>> <br>> >>> *Frank *<br>> >>> <br>> >>> * *<br>> >>> <br>> >>> * *<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Thanks ****<br>> >>> <br>> >>> ** **<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Frank Shields****<br>> >>> <br>> >>> ** **<br>> >>> <br>> >>> BioChar Division****<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Control Laboratories, Inc. ****<br>> >>> <br>> >>> 42 Hangar Way****<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Watsonville, CE 95076****<br>> >>> <br>> >>> ** **<br>> >>> <br>> >>> (831) 724-5422 tel****<br>> >>> <br>> >>> (81) 724-3188 fax****<br>> >>> <br>> >>> frank@biocharlab.com****<br>> >>> <br>> >>> www.controllabs.com****<br>> >>> <br>> >>> * *<br>> >>> <br>> >>> * *<br>> >>> <br>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>> Stoves mailing list<br>> >>> <br>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >> URL: <<br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130513/581f8a8a/attachment-0001.html<br>> >> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >> Name: 0. 6-29-12 Fan.jpg<br>> >> Type: image/jpeg<br>> >> Size: 117950 bytes<br>> >> Desc: not available<br>> >> URL: <<br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130513/581f8a8a/attachment-0005.jpg<br>> >> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >> Name: 2. 7-18-12 Max Burn.jpg<br>> >> Type: image/jpeg<br>> >> Size: 90033 bytes<br>> >> Desc: not available<br>> >> URL: <<br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130513/581f8a8a/attachment-0006.jpg<br>> >> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >> Name: 3. 6-29-12 Straw.jpg<br>> >> Type: image/jpeg<br>> >> Size: 78759 bytes<br>> >> Desc: not available<br>> >> URL: <<br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130513/581f8a8a/attachment-0007.jpg<br>> >> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >> Name: 4. 7-18-12 Post Burn.jpg<br>> >> Type: image/jpeg<br>> >> Size: 111959 bytes<br>> >> Desc: not available<br>> >> URL: <<br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130513/581f8a8a/attachment-0008.jpg<br>> >> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >> Name: 5. 7-18-12 BioChar.jpg<br>> >> Type: image/jpeg<br>> >> Size: 128846 bytes<br>> >> Desc: not available<br>> >> URL: <<br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130513/581f8a8a/attachment-0009.jpg<br>> >> <br>> >> ------------------------------<br>> >> <br>> >> Message: 2<br>> >> Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 11:20:14 -0700<br>> >> From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles@trmiles.com><br>> >> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"<br>> >> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making<br>> >> Message-ID: <013901ce5006$84200580$8c601080$@trmiles.com><br>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>> >> <br>> >> Frank,<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Direct combustion options include steam, Stirling engines, and organic<br>> >> Rankine cycle (ORC) turbines. The challenge we have with these options is<br>> >> cost, especially at the small scale. We did a recent comparison of the<br>> >> feasibility at the 2 MWe scale and found that steam was the most cost<br>> >> effective compared with ORC or Stirling.<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Tom<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of<br>> >> Frank Shields<br>> >> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 10:55 AM<br>> >> To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'<br>> >> Subject: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Stovers,<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when making<br>> >> char that is just flared off.<br>> >> <br>> >> I'm thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1) a<br>> >> very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The<br>> >> generator<br>> >> is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity? Perhaps<br>> >> not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the gas need not<br>> >> be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine.<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Thanks<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Frank<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Thanks<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Frank Shields<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> BioChar Division<br>> >> <br>> >> Control Laboratories, Inc.<br>> >> <br>> >> 42 Hangar Way<br>> >> <br>> >> Watsonville, CE 95076<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> (831) 724-5422 tel<br>> >> <br>> >> (81) 724-3188 fax<br>> >> <br>> >> frank@biocharlab.com<br>> >> <br>> >> www.controllabs.com<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >> URL: <<br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130513/e13357fe/attachment-0001.html<br>> >> <br>> >> ------------------------------<br>> >> <br>> >> Message: 3<br>> >> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 05:38:24 +0530<br>> >> From: Nariphaltan <nariphaltan@gmail.com><br>> >> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>> >> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >> Cc: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>> >> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making<br>> >> Message-ID: <20FCC1E5-3350-4223-BC13-4091D9C20481@gmail.com><br>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>> >> <br>> >> Have a look at this "char making machine".<br>> >> www.nariphaltan.org/Gasifier.pdf<br>> >> <br>> >> Cheers.<br>> >> <br>> >> Anil K Rajvanshi<br>> >> <br>> >> Sent from my iPad<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> On 13-May-2013, at 11:24 PM, "Frank Shields" <frank@compostlab.com> wrote:<br>> >> <br>> >>> Stovers,<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when<br>> >> making char that is just flared off.<br>> >>> I?m thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1) a<br>> >> very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The<br>> >> generator is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity?<br>> >> Perhaps not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the gas<br>> >> need not be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Thanks<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Frank<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Thanks<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Frank Shields<br>> >>> <br>> >>> BioChar Division<br>> >>> Control Laboratories, Inc.<br>> >>> 42 Hangar Way<br>> >>> Watsonville, CE 95076<br>> >>> <br>> >>> (831) 724-5422 tel<br>> >>> (81) 724-3188 fax<br>> >>> frank@biocharlab.com<br>> >>> www.controllabs.com<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>> Stoves mailing list<br>> >>> <br>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >> URL: <<br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/f0557ccc/attachment-0001.html<br>> >> <br>> >> ------------------------------<br>> >> <br>> >> Message: 4<br>> >> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 08:23:23 +0700<br>> >> From: Tuong DoDuc <tuong.do@devi-renewable.com><br>> >> To: stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >> Subject: [Stoves] Continuous gasifier for household scale - experience<br>> >> sharing<br>> >> Message-ID:<br>> >> <CAJaUSMNHfwozi-gjuzetBwKen0AAKQDLJPgRu916ejYW=<br>> >> L7vuA@mail.gmail.com><br>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>> >> <br>> >> Dear Dr.TLUD, Paul Oliver, and others,<br>> >> <br>> >> The team in SNV Vietnam is adopting the continous gasifier model developed<br>> >> by Belonio. The manual has been obtained from the CRHET.<br>> >> Watch our first propotype: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQGS-VQIj5M<br>> >> We were able to control the fire, load fuel without affecting the fire, and<br>> >> easily remove char at the bottom of the reactor.<br>> >> <br>> >> We also adopted the computer fan-casing by a cheaper, more popular fan in<br>> >> Vietnam (often used for coal and fixed wood stove). Fan costed 2USD (while<br>> >> to replicate Belonio's fan-casing, we bought the adapter for 5USD and a<br>> >> computer fan for 1.5USD)<br>> >> <br>> >> However, this is just our first step and we still have so many problems to<br>> >> fully control the fire and ease the operation.<br>> >> 1) For instance, uncontrolled moment happened when combustion occurs rigt<br>> >> on top of the fuel hopper, a lot of smoke was produced and later the fire<br>> >> burnt the fan.<br>> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/43fkjs0axuye4oj/uncontrollable_moment.jpg<br>> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rd1g1cg0a9ue8qt/fan_casing.jpg<br>> >> <br>> >> 2) Another problem is that a lot of tar is produced. It deposits on pot<br>> >> bottom, burner and other part of the stove. That would also harm the user.<br>> >> An idea is to create a layer of char in the burner pipe (to filter the<br>> >> tar). Not tried yet.<br>> >> <br>> >> 3) We observes 5-10% of the gas leaked out through the char removal door.<br>> >> We burnt them, but user may not know (or they simply just don't care) that<br>> >> it is toxic.<br>> >> <br>> >> 4) One more, it is very hard to control the final minutes of the<br>> >> gasificatoin process. It always cause inverted combustion to the fuel<br>> >> hopper.<br>> >> <br>> >> By this email, I would like to ask if some of you have done similar work<br>> >> with continuous gasifier like this to share more experience. We can thus<br>> >> reduce our time and effort in localizing this technology.<br>> >> <br>> >> Best regards,<br>> >> <br>> >> Do Duc Tuong,<br>> >> <br>> >> Renewable Energy Advisor<br>> >> SNV Vietnam<br>> >> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >> URL: <<br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/a58467e3/attachment-0001.html<br>> >> <br>> >> ------------------------------<br>> >> <br>> >> Message: 5<br>> >> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 02:55:28 +0000 (UTC)<br>> >> From: rongretlarson@comcast.net<br>> >> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>> >> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org>, Biochar-production<br>> >> <Biochar-production@yahoogroups.com><br>> >> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making<br>> >> Message-ID:<br>> >> <<br>> >> 1707234733.1840621.1368500128336.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net<br>> >> <br>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>> >> <br>> >> Dr. Rajvanshi: cc stoves and adding "bochar-production"<br>> >> <br>> >> Thanks for sending us this report. A few questions<br>> >> <br>> >> a. This work was done in the mid '90's. What has happened recently with<br>> >> this or similar equipment in India or your part of India? Can one now buy<br>> >> such hardware?<br>> >> <br>> >> b. What caused NARI to design a pyrolyzer rather than a combustor?<br>> >> <br>> >> c. In the Abstract, you said the char "... .can be used as a soil<br>> >> conditioner ." This would have been very early in the history of what we<br>> >> now call "biochar". Was there then a market near Phaltan for such? Now?<br>> >> <br>> >> d. Your economics section does not show a price for char. Can you<br>> >> guesstimate the relative value then and now for the char?<br>> >> <br>> >> Congratulations for what appears to have been a successful design - ahead<br>> >> of its time..<br>> >> <br>> >> Ron<br>> >> <br>> >> ----- Original Message -----<br>> >> From: "Nariphaltan" <nariphaltan@gmail.com><br>> >> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<br>> >> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >> Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<br>> >> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:08:24 PM<br>> >> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Have a look at this "char making machine".<br>> >> www.nariphaltan.org/Gasifier.pdf<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Cheers.<br>> >> <br>> >> Anil K Rajvanshi<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Sent from my iPad<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> On 13-May-2013, at 11:24 PM, "Frank Shields" < frank@compostlab.com ><br>> >> wrote:<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Stovers,<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when making<br>> >> char that is just flared off.<br>> >> <br>> >> I?m thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1) a<br>> >> very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The<br>> >> generator is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity? Perhaps<br>> >> not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the gas need not<br>> >> be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine.<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Thanks<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Frank<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Thanks<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Frank Shields<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> BioChar Division<br>> >> <br>> >> Control Laboratories, Inc.<br>> >> <br>> >> 42 Hangar Way<br>> >> <br>> >> Watsonville, CE 95076<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> (831) 724-5422 tel<br>> >> <br>> >> (81) 724-3188 fax<br>> >> <br>> >> frank@biocharlab.com<br>> >> <br>> >> www.controllabs.com<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <blockquote><br>> >> <br>> >> _______________________________________________<br>> >> Stoves mailing list<br>> >> <br>> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >> <br>> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >> <br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >> <br>> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> </blockquote><br>> >> <br>> >> _______________________________________________<br>> >> Stoves mailing list<br>> >> <br>> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >> <br>> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >> <br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >> <br>> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >> <br>> >> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >> URL: <<br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/6088e3b2/attachment-0001.html<br>> >> <br>> >> ------------------------------<br>> >> <br>> >> Message: 6<br>> >> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 10:12:56 +0700<br>> >> From: Paul Olivier <paul.olivier@esrla.com><br>> >> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>> >> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Continuous gasifier for household scale -<br>> >> experience sharing<br>> >> Message-ID:<br>> >> <<br>> >> CAOreFvYL5d29-W4JdwJ9BHOmkkyzh2oDNKM-wp37xgGCbRhtBQ@mail.gmail.com><br>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>> >> <br>> >> The moment one goes from batch to continuous, the process gets really<br>> >> complicated. Nothing beats the simplicity of a static batch reactor.<br>> >> It provides ideal gasification conditions. The problem regarding the<br>> >> length of the batch cycle can be overcome if the fuel is densified. If<br>> >> the reactor is filled with pellets, the length of the cycle can be<br>> >> extended to well over five hours. Imagine: for a five full hours, the<br>> >> operator does not have to intervene. There is no loading of rice hulls<br>> >> or scrapping out of biochar during this entire period.<br>> >> <br>> >> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Paper/Presentations/Gasification.ppsx<br>> >> The time to empty, reload and relight a batch reactor is less than one<br>> >> minute.<br>> >> Several reactor tubes can be operated at the same time.<br>> >> <br>> >> Thanks.<br>> >> Paul Olivier<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Tuong DoDuc<br>> >> <tuong.do@devi-renewable.com> wrote:<br>> >>> Dear Dr.TLUD, Paul Oliver, and others,<br>> >>> <br>> >>> The team in SNV Vietnam is adopting the continous gasifier model<br>> >> developed<br>> >>> by Belonio. The manual has been obtained from the CRHET.<br>> >>> Watch our first propotype: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQGS-VQIj5M<br>> >>> We were able to control the fire, load fuel without affecting the fire,<br>> >> and<br>> >>> easily remove char at the bottom of the reactor.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> We also adopted the computer fan-casing by a cheaper, more popular fan in<br>> >>> Vietnam (often used for coal and fixed wood stove). Fan costed 2USD<br>> >> (while<br>> >>> to replicate Belonio's fan-casing, we bought the adapter for 5USD and a<br>> >>> computer fan for 1.5USD)<br>> >>> <br>> >>> However, this is just our first step and we still have so many problems<br>> >> to<br>> >>> fully control the fire and ease the operation.<br>> >>> 1) For instance, uncontrolled moment happened when combustion occurs<br>> >> rigt on<br>> >>> top of the fuel hopper, a lot of smoke was produced and later the fire<br>> >> burnt<br>> >>> the fan.<br>> >>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/43fkjs0axuye4oj/uncontrollable_moment.jpg<br>> >>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rd1g1cg0a9ue8qt/fan_casing.jpg<br>> >>> <br>> >>> 2) Another problem is that a lot of tar is produced. It deposits on pot<br>> >>> bottom, burner and other part of the stove. That would also harm the<br>> >> user.<br>> >>> An idea is to create a layer of char in the burner pipe (to filter the<br>> >> tar).<br>> >>> Not tried yet.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> 3) We observes 5-10% of the gas leaked out through the char removal<br>> >> door. We<br>> >>> burnt them, but user may not know (or they simply just don't care) that<br>> >> it<br>> >>> is toxic.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> 4) One more, it is very hard to control the final minutes of the<br>> >>> gasificatoin process. It always cause inverted combustion to the fuel<br>> >>> hopper.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> By this email, I would like to ask if some of you have done similar work<br>> >>> with continuous gasifier like this to share more experience. We can thus<br>> >>> reduce our time and effort in localizing this technology.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Best regards,<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Do Duc Tuong,<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Renewable Energy Advisor<br>> >>> SNV Vietnam<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>> Stoves mailing list<br>> >>> <br>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> --<br>> >> Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>> >> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong<br>> >> Dalat<br>> >> Vietnam<br>> >> <br>> >> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)<br>> >> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>> >> Skype address: Xpolivier<br>> >> http://www.esrla.com/<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> ------------------------------<br>> >> <br>> >> Message: 7<br>> >> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 18:03:54 +0700<br>> >> From: Tuong DoDuc <tuong.do@devi-renewable.com><br>> >> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>> >> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Continuous gasifier for household scale -<br>> >> experience sharing<br>> >> Message-ID:<br>> >> <<br>> >> CAJaUSMON7XTbFRSgU5Q-Nv9j8pqFa2uyFvakoBN2QqLVthp+pw@mail.gmail.com><br>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>> >> <br>> >> Thanks Paul Oliver,<br>> >> <br>> >> I went through your presentation several times before.<br>> >> I must say that It is very convincing and inspiring as well.<br>> >> <br>> >> Regarding the continous feed concept, I think it is a trade-off.<br>> >> One one side, we will tell the users all the pros anc cons and let them<br>> >> decide to choose what they like.<br>> >> In this case, we will leave several different options for the users by a<br>> >> field test of different gasifier models.<br>> >> The user will tell. At this development stage of the continuous gasifier, I<br>> >> can't tell which (batch or continuous) suits the user most. Especially,<br>> >> there is no one-size-fits-all solution<br>> >> <br>> >> Best regards,<br>> >> <br>> >> Tuong<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Paul Olivier <paul.olivier@esrla.com<br>> >>> wrote:<br>> >> <br>> >>> The moment one goes from batch to continuous, the process gets really<br>> >>> complicated. Nothing beats the simplicity of a static batch reactor.<br>> >>> It provides ideal gasification conditions. The problem regarding the<br>> >>> length of the batch cycle can be overcome if the fuel is densified. If<br>> >>> the reactor is filled with pellets, the length of the cycle can be<br>> >>> extended to well over five hours. Imagine: for a five full hours, the<br>> >>> operator does not have to intervene. There is no loading of rice hulls<br>> >>> or scrapping out of biochar during this entire period.<br>> >> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Paper/Presentations/Gasification.ppsx<br>> >>> The time to empty, reload and relight a batch reactor is less than one<br>> >>> minute.<br>> >>> Several reactor tubes can be operated at the same time.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Thanks.<br>> >>> Paul Olivier<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Tuong DoDuc<br>> >>> <tuong.do@devi-renewable.com> wrote:<br>> >>>> Dear Dr.TLUD, Paul Oliver, and others,<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> The team in SNV Vietnam is adopting the continous gasifier model<br>> >>> developed<br>> >>>> by Belonio. The manual has been obtained from the CRHET.<br>> >>>> Watch our first propotype: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQGS-VQIj5M<br>> >>>> We were able to control the fire, load fuel without affecting the fire,<br>> >>> and<br>> >>>> easily remove char at the bottom of the reactor.<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> We also adopted the computer fan-casing by a cheaper, more popular fan<br>> >> in<br>> >>>> Vietnam (often used for coal and fixed wood stove). Fan costed 2USD<br>> >>> (while<br>> >>>> to replicate Belonio's fan-casing, we bought the adapter for 5USD and a<br>> >>>> computer fan for 1.5USD)<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> However, this is just our first step and we still have so many problems<br>> >>> to<br>> >>>> fully control the fire and ease the operation.<br>> >>>> 1) For instance, uncontrolled moment happened when combustion occurs<br>> >>> rigt on<br>> >>>> top of the fuel hopper, a lot of smoke was produced and later the fire<br>> >>> burnt<br>> >>>> the fan.<br>> >>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/43fkjs0axuye4oj/uncontrollable_moment.jpg<br>> >>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rd1g1cg0a9ue8qt/fan_casing.jpg<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> 2) Another problem is that a lot of tar is produced. It deposits on pot<br>> >>>> bottom, burner and other part of the stove. That would also harm the<br>> >>> user.<br>> >>>> An idea is to create a layer of char in the burner pipe (to filter the<br>> >>> tar).<br>> >>>> Not tried yet.<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> 3) We observes 5-10% of the gas leaked out through the char removal<br>> >>> door. We<br>> >>>> burnt them, but user may not know (or they simply just don't care) that<br>> >>> it<br>> >>>> is toxic.<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> 4) One more, it is very hard to control the final minutes of the<br>> >>>> gasificatoin process. It always cause inverted combustion to the fuel<br>> >>>> hopper.<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> By this email, I would like to ask if some of you have done similar<br>> >> work<br>> >>>> with continuous gasifier like this to share more experience. We can<br>> >> thus<br>> >>>> reduce our time and effort in localizing this technology.<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Best regards,<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Do Duc Tuong,<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Renewable Energy Advisor<br>> >>>> SNV Vietnam<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>>> Stoves mailing list<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >>>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web<br>> >> site:<br>> >>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> --<br>> >>> Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>> >>> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong<br>> >>> Dalat<br>> >>> Vietnam<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)<br>> >>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>> >>> Skype address: Xpolivier<br>> >>> http://www.esrla.com/<br>> >>> <br>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>> Stoves mailing list<br>> >>> <br>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >> URL: <<br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/9182fc38/attachment-0001.html<br>> >> <br>> >> ------------------------------<br>> >> <br>> >> Message: 8<br>> >> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 16:39:47 +0530<br>> >> From: Nariphaltan <nariphaltan@gmail.com><br>> >> To: "rongretlarson@comcast.net" <rongretlarson@comcast.net><br>> >> Cc: Biochar-production <Biochar-production@yahoogroups.com>,<br>> >> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <<br>> >> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making<br>> >> Message-ID: <B08F79A0-7233-4B92-A188-A7C5BA79BB21@gmail.com><br>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>> >> <br>> >> Dear Ron,<br>> >> <br>> >> Thanks for your mail. We did this work when very few people were<br>> >> interested in loose leafy gasifier. It was designed so that the flow is<br>> >> smooth and hence the best strategy was to pyrolyse the biomass rather than<br>> >> gasify it. In the process we also generated 25% char (w/w feed basis).<br>> >> Since we are an agricultural research Institute hence we thought of using<br>> >> this char as a soil conditioner. This was in 1990-1992. Because of the<br>> >> pioneer nature of this work the gasifier together with the char in the<br>> >> field was on cover of International Journal of Biomass Energy (David Hall<br>> >> used to be the editor of the Journal).<br>> >> <br>> >> Why we left this work? This is a long story but we moved on to other<br>> >> things and partly because no body was interested in the biomass research at<br>> >> that time.<br>> >> <br>> >> Still I think Our work can be inspiration to lots of people.<br>> >> <br>> >> All the best.<br>> >> <br>> >> Anil<br>> >> <br>> >> Anil K Rajvanshi<br>> >> <br>> >> Sent from my iPad<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> On 14-May-2013, at 8:25 AM, rongretlarson@comcast.net wrote:<br>> >> <br>> >>> Dr. Rajvanshi: cc stoves and adding "bochar-production"<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Thanks for sending us this report. A few questions<br>> >>> <br>> >>> a. This work was done in the mid '90's. What has happened recently<br>> >> with this or similar equipment in India or your part of India? Can one<br>> >> now buy such hardware?<br>> >>> <br>> >>> b. What caused NARI to design a pyrolyzer rather than a combustor?<br>> >>> <br>> >>> c. In the Abstract, you said the char "....can be used as a soil<br>> >> conditioner." This would have been very early in the history of what we<br>> >> now call "biochar". Was there then a market near Phaltan for such? Now?<br>> >>> <br>> >>> d. Your economics section does not show a price for char. Can you<br>> >> guesstimate the relative value then and now for the char?<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Congratulations for what appears to have been a successful design -<br>> >> ahead of its time..<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Ron<br>> >>> <br>> >>> From: "Nariphaltan" <nariphaltan@gmail.com><br>> >>> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<br>> >> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >>> Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<br>> >> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:08:24 PM<br>> >>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Have a look at this "char making machine".<br>> >> www.nariphaltan.org/Gasifier.pdf<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Cheers.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Anil K Rajvanshi<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Sent from my iPad<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> On 13-May-2013, at 11:24 PM, "Frank Shields" <frank@compostlab.com><br>> >> wrote:<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Stovers,<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when<br>> >> making char that is just flared off.<br>> >>> I?m thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1) a<br>> >> very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The<br>> >> generator is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity?<br>> >> Perhaps not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the gas<br>> >> need not be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Thanks<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Frank<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Thanks<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Frank Shields<br>> >>> <br>> >>> BioChar Division<br>> >>> Control Laboratories, Inc.<br>> >>> 42 Hangar Way<br>> >>> Watsonville, CE 95076<br>> >>> <br>> >>> (831) 724-5422 tel<br>> >>> (81) 724-3188 fax<br>> >>> frank@biocharlab.com<br>> >>> www.controllabs.com<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>> Stoves mailing list<br>> >>> <br>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>> Stoves mailing list<br>> >>> <br>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >> URL: <<br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/88a3f211/attachment-0001.html<br>> >> <br>> >> ------------------------------<br>> >> <br>> >> Message: 9<br>> >> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 07:56:44 -0700<br>> >> From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles@trmiles.com><br>> >> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"<br>> >> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org>, <rongretlarson@comcast.net<br>> >> Cc: 'Biochar-production' <Biochar-production@yahoogroups.com><br>> >> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making<br>> >> Message-ID: <00a301ce50b3$40e683e0$c2b38ba0$@trmiles.com><br>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>> >> <br>> >> Anil,<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Thanks for bringing this out.<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> At the time (1975-1995) there were efforts to convert straws and crop<br>> >> residues to energy, particularly in France (at AFME, CEMAGREF, Pillard,<br>> >> etc.). In most cases the char was considered a potential domestic fuel<br>> >> rather than for agriculture. European demand for charcoal was high. French<br>> >> wood pyrolysis and gasification plants were still in operation and in<br>> >> development. (The downdraft gasifier that we associate with Hitler was<br>> >> invented in France in the 1930s.)<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> As you remember David Hall made a concerted effort to improve<br>> >> carbonization and energy systems in agriculture.<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Tom<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf<br>> >> Of Nariphaltan<br>> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 4:10 AM<br>> >> To: rongretlarson@comcast.net<br>> >> Cc: Biochar-production; Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>> >> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Dear Ron,<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Thanks for your mail. We did this work when very few people were<br>> >> interested in loose leafy gasifier. It was designed so that the flow is<br>> >> smooth and hence the best strategy was to pyrolyse the biomass rather than<br>> >> gasify it. In the process we also generated 25% char (w/w feed basis).<br>> >> Since we are an agricultural research Institute hence we thought of using<br>> >> this char as a soil conditioner. This was in 1990-1992. Because of the<br>> >> pioneer nature of this work the gasifier together with the char in the<br>> >> field was on cover of International Journal of Biomass Energy (David Hall<br>> >> used to be the editor of the Journal).<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Why we left this work? This is a long story but we moved on to other<br>> >> things and partly because no body was interested in the biomass research at<br>> >> that time.<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Still I think Our work can be inspiration to lots of people.<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> All the best.<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Anil<br>> >> <br>> >> Anil K Rajvanshi<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Sent from my iPad<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> On 14-May-2013, at 8:25 AM, rongretlarson@comcast.net wrote:<br>> >> <br>> >> Dr. Rajvanshi: cc stoves and adding "bochar-production"<br>> >> <br>> >> Thanks for sending us this report. A few questions<br>> >> <br>> >> a. This work was done in the mid '90's. What has happened recently with<br>> >> this or similar equipment in India or your part of India? Can one now buy<br>> >> such hardware?<br>> >> <br>> >> b. What caused NARI to design a pyrolyzer rather than a combustor?<br>> >> <br>> >> c. In the Abstract, you said the char "....can be used as a soil<br>> >> conditioner." This would have been very early in the history of what we<br>> >> now call "biochar". Was there then a market near Phaltan for such? Now?<br>> >> <br>> >> d. Your economics section does not show a price for char. Can you<br>> >> guesstimate the relative value then and now for the char?<br>> >> <br>> >> Congratulations for what appears to have been a successful design -<br>> >> ahead of its time..<br>> >> <br>> >> Ron<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> _____<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> From: "Nariphaltan" <nariphaltan@gmail.com><br>> >> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<br>> >> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >> Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<br>> >> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:08:24 PM<br>> >> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making<br>> >> <br>> >> Have a look at this "char making machine".<br>> >> www.nariphaltan.org/Gasifier.pdf<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Cheers.<br>> >> <br>> >> Anil K Rajvanshi<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Sent from my iPad<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> On 13-May-2013, at 11:24 PM, "Frank Shields" <frank@compostlab.com> wrote:<br>> >> <br>> >> Stovers,<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when making<br>> >> char that is just flared off.<br>> >> <br>> >> I?m thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1) a<br>> >> very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The<br>> >> generator is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity? Perhaps<br>> >> not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the gas need not<br>> >> be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine.<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Thanks<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Frank<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Thanks<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> Frank Shields<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> BioChar Division<br>> >> <br>> >> Control Laboratories, Inc.<br>> >> <br>> >> 42 Hangar Way<br>> >> <br>> >> Watsonville, CE 95076<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> (831) 724-5422 tel<br>> >> <br>> >> (81) 724-3188 fax<br>> >> <br>> >> frank@biocharlab.com<br>> >> <br>> >> www.controllabs.com<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> _______________________________________________<br>> >> Stoves mailing list<br>> >> <br>> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >> <br>> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >> <br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >> <br>> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> _______________________________________________<br>> >> Stoves mailing list<br>> >> <br>> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >> <br>> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >> <br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >> <br>> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >> <br>> >> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >> URL: <<br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/67811ee2/attachment.html<br>> >> <br>> >> ------------------------------<br>> >> <br>> >> Subject: Digest Footer<br>> >> <br>> >> _______________________________________________<br>> >> Stoves mailing list<br>> >> <br>> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >> <br>> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >> <br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >> http://www.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> ------------------------------<br>> >> <br>> >> End of Stoves Digest, Vol 33, Issue 18<br>> >> **************************************<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > -- <br>> > Art Donnelly<br>> > President SeaChar.Org<br>> > US Director, The Farm Stove Project<br>> > Proyecto Estufa Finca<br>> > <http://email2.globalgiving.org/wf/click?c=1Oy%2FmZbgIyjS5WI580KXwShvfKBcF2eaJvtN7Pi6p7Jl%2FiR4938EMMCBwY%2FuYALeA%2BQYUWN4RpvnxBsBC7e2%2BGIHcONTozBmvsUU5LTL%2FTNk4Q3vxE%2BKdXTV2cxIsFplSPh%2F9nMG3bQMQf4bz9ZK9SHMy46Z8OPLAtMAnPG9SKkPuLCWvofBTLC%2BImqax%2BZTkkF2RvDri5UdgH19NHjHOBj5WMUrS4L62Z2xxUJbBsJdDUOfeifheNFXH546Xm0yul4P2stm%2FTUOJxYnI0nFjXEaYfzxDSc%2FwgqVkR1t0USDHk30%2Fgt9UpDpyzLj37HWtnNQ0q8Jh1gZCkB4Y1Fgbg394gYFkyNqFN4MchxO2Js%3D&rp=wrhiOr2wAxUyDMDlMSqbOkKa0FpPoiCSHffb%2ByfHGClRxIFjEIrUDwAF%2BFD%2BpAPuvam9BDwvSMcadhFv7aFwKoyAXYrFk00%2B92xPIeMHXaTDJ3x0VIj6ZYwjm1win65o&up=YDTqBOjidbCUo%2Far1oAtZjp5ji73zPEvmoO14mevuXzIDUdb6Ac9W13SPOXmzL5NflZkH0HxLp0v4dT9UwEHDV0wSZ1qusv09bIKkUliWs4%3D&u=LHuflw_1TAib_lgCu2JvQw%2Fh0><br>> > "SeaChar.Org...positive tools for carbon negative living"<br>> > -------------- next part --------------<br>> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> > URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/31d6ae8f/attachment-0001.html><br>> > -------------- next part --------------<br>> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br>> > Name: TLUD heat exchanger test firing.jpg<br>> > Type: image/jpeg<br>> > Size: 70955 bytes<br>> > Desc: not available<br>> > URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/31d6ae8f/attachment-0001.jpg><br>> > <br>> > ------------------------------<br>> > <br>> > Message: 2<br>> > Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 09:01:49 -0700<br>> > From: Francesco Tortorici <francescot@gmail.com><br>> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>> > <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making<br>> > Message-ID:<br>> > <CAKiNAwVCYO6tYH8xk+5YsTrKsbbRSnskHgsduSZq2k7Sx1az+A@mail.gmail.com><br>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>> > <br>> > Art,<br>> > <br>> > Please have them contact me directly. We would be happy to share with them.<br>> > Francesco<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:50 AM, Art Donnelly <art.donnelly@seachar.org>wrote:<br>> > <br>> >> Hi all,<br>> >> Francesco, that's a nice looking setup. SeaChar has a couple of volunteers<br>> >> (bi-lingual) in Costa Rica that want to do the same thing. Can we introduce<br>> >> them to your friends and set-up an information exchange?<br>> >> Also, I have attached a photo of our "in progress" TLUD heat exchanger. It<br>> >> will be used to dry cacao beans.<br>> >> Our goal is to make every BTU count.<br>> >> Art Donnelly<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:56 AM, <stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org>wrote:<br>> >> <br>> >>> Send Stoves mailing list submissions to<br>> >>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>> >>> <br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>> >>> stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>> >>> stoves-owner@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>> >>> than "Re: Contents of Stoves digest..."<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Today's Topics:<br>> >>> <br>> >>> 1. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Francesco Tortorici)<br>> >>> 2. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Tom Miles)<br>> >>> 3. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Nariphaltan)<br>> >>> 4. Continuous gasifier for household scale - experience sharing<br>> >>> (Tuong DoDuc)<br>> >>> 5. Re: Using all the energy when char making<br>> >>> (rongretlarson@comcast.net)<br>> >>> 6. Re: Continuous gasifier for household scale - experience<br>> >>> sharing (Paul Olivier)<br>> >>> 7. Re: Continuous gasifier for household scale - experience<br>> >>> sharing (Tuong DoDuc)<br>> >>> 8. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Nariphaltan)<br>> >>> 9. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Tom Miles)<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Message: 1<br>> >>> Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 11:13:42 -0700<br>> >>> From: Francesco Tortorici <francescot@gmail.com><br>> >>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>> >>> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making<br>> >>> Message-ID:<br>> >>> <CAKiNAwXcz9yYu3Gh4=dbb8=<br>> >>> z-3QuWps6+yWtrCGmwu-A8oKZDQ@mail.gmail.com><br>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Here is an example of a local mushroom grower that uses a TLUD to<br>> >>> pasteurize straw. Previously he used propane, but now uses his gasifier<br>> >>> stove. The biochar produced is "charged" with worm castings and worm tea<br>> >>> that is also a "byproduct' of his mushroom business.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> This is an example of of having a need for the heat and the willingness to<br>> >>> try something different. His operation is small and located on the<br>> >>> Olympic Peninsula of Washington State.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Frank Shields <frank@compostlab.com<br>> >>>> wrote:<br>> >>> <br>> >>>> *Stovers,*<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> * *<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> * *<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> *Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when<br>> >>>> making char that is just flared off. *<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> *I?m thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1)<br>> >>> a<br>> >>>> very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The<br>> >>>> generator is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.*<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> * *<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> *So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity?<br>> >>>> Perhaps not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the<br>> >>> gas<br>> >>>> need not be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine. *<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> * *<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> * *<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> *Thanks*<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> * *<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> * *<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> *Frank *<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> * *<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> * *<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Thanks ****<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> ** **<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Frank Shields****<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> ** **<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> BioChar Division****<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Control Laboratories, Inc. ****<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> 42 Hangar Way****<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Watsonville, CE 95076****<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> ** **<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> (831) 724-5422 tel****<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> (81) 724-3188 fax****<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> frank@biocharlab.com****<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> www.controllabs.com****<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> * *<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> * *<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>>> Stoves mailing list<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >>>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >>> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >>> URL: <<br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130513/581f8a8a/attachment-0001.html<br>> >>> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >>> Name: 0. 6-29-12 Fan.jpg<br>> >>> Type: image/jpeg<br>> >>> Size: 117950 bytes<br>> >>> Desc: not available<br>> >>> URL: <<br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130513/581f8a8a/attachment-0005.jpg<br>> >>> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >>> Name: 2. 7-18-12 Max Burn.jpg<br>> >>> Type: image/jpeg<br>> >>> Size: 90033 bytes<br>> >>> Desc: not available<br>> >>> URL: <<br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130513/581f8a8a/attachment-0006.jpg<br>> >>> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >>> Name: 3. 6-29-12 Straw.jpg<br>> >>> Type: image/jpeg<br>> >>> Size: 78759 bytes<br>> >>> Desc: not available<br>> >>> URL: <<br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130513/581f8a8a/attachment-0007.jpg<br>> >>> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >>> Name: 4. 7-18-12 Post Burn.jpg<br>> >>> Type: image/jpeg<br>> >>> Size: 111959 bytes<br>> >>> Desc: not available<br>> >>> URL: <<br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130513/581f8a8a/attachment-0008.jpg<br>> >>> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >>> Name: 5. 7-18-12 BioChar.jpg<br>> >>> Type: image/jpeg<br>> >>> Size: 128846 bytes<br>> >>> Desc: not available<br>> >>> URL: <<br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130513/581f8a8a/attachment-0009.jpg<br>> >>> <br>> >>> ------------------------------<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Message: 2<br>> >>> Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 11:20:14 -0700<br>> >>> From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles@trmiles.com><br>> >>> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"<br>> >>> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making<br>> >>> Message-ID: <013901ce5006$84200580$8c601080$@trmiles.com><br>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Frank,<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Direct combustion options include steam, Stirling engines, and organic<br>> >>> Rankine cycle (ORC) turbines. The challenge we have with these options is<br>> >>> cost, especially at the small scale. We did a recent comparison of the<br>> >>> feasibility at the 2 MWe scale and found that steam was the most cost<br>> >>> effective compared with ORC or Stirling.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Tom<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf<br>> >>> Of<br>> >>> Frank Shields<br>> >>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 10:55 AM<br>> >>> To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'<br>> >>> Subject: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Stovers,<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when making<br>> >>> char that is just flared off.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> I'm thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1) a<br>> >>> very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The<br>> >>> generator<br>> >>> is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity? Perhaps<br>> >>> not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the gas need<br>> >>> not<br>> >>> be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Thanks<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Frank<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Thanks<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Frank Shields<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> BioChar Division<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Control Laboratories, Inc.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> 42 Hangar Way<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Watsonville, CE 95076<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> (831) 724-5422 tel<br>> >>> <br>> >>> (81) 724-3188 fax<br>> >>> <br>> >>> frank@biocharlab.com<br>> >>> <br>> >>> www.controllabs.com<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >>> URL: <<br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130513/e13357fe/attachment-0001.html<br>> >>> <br>> >>> ------------------------------<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Message: 3<br>> >>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 05:38:24 +0530<br>> >>> From: Nariphaltan <nariphaltan@gmail.com><br>> >>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>> >>> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >>> Cc: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>> >>> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making<br>> >>> Message-ID: <20FCC1E5-3350-4223-BC13-4091D9C20481@gmail.com><br>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Have a look at this "char making machine".<br>> >>> www.nariphaltan.org/Gasifier.pdf<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Cheers.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Anil K Rajvanshi<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Sent from my iPad<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> On 13-May-2013, at 11:24 PM, "Frank Shields" <frank@compostlab.com><br>> >>> wrote:<br>> >>> <br>> >>>> Stovers,<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when<br>> >>> making char that is just flared off.<br>> >>>> I?m thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1)<br>> >>> a very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The<br>> >>> generator is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity?<br>> >>> Perhaps not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the gas<br>> >>> need not be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine.<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Thanks<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Frank<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Thanks<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Frank Shields<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> BioChar Division<br>> >>>> Control Laboratories, Inc.<br>> >>>> 42 Hangar Way<br>> >>>> Watsonville, CE 95076<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> (831) 724-5422 tel<br>> >>>> (81) 724-3188 fax<br>> >>>> frank@biocharlab.com<br>> >>>> www.controllabs.com<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>>> Stoves mailing list<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >>>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >>> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >>> URL: <<br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/f0557ccc/attachment-0001.html<br>> >>> <br>> >>> ------------------------------<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Message: 4<br>> >>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 08:23:23 +0700<br>> >>> From: Tuong DoDuc <tuong.do@devi-renewable.com><br>> >>> To: stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> Subject: [Stoves] Continuous gasifier for household scale - experience<br>> >>> sharing<br>> >>> Message-ID:<br>> >>> <CAJaUSMNHfwozi-gjuzetBwKen0AAKQDLJPgRu916ejYW=<br>> >>> L7vuA@mail.gmail.com><br>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Dear Dr.TLUD, Paul Oliver, and others,<br>> >>> <br>> >>> The team in SNV Vietnam is adopting the continous gasifier model developed<br>> >>> by Belonio. The manual has been obtained from the CRHET.<br>> >>> Watch our first propotype: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQGS-VQIj5M<br>> >>> We were able to control the fire, load fuel without affecting the fire,<br>> >>> and<br>> >>> easily remove char at the bottom of the reactor.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> We also adopted the computer fan-casing by a cheaper, more popular fan in<br>> >>> Vietnam (often used for coal and fixed wood stove). Fan costed 2USD (while<br>> >>> to replicate Belonio's fan-casing, we bought the adapter for 5USD and a<br>> >>> computer fan for 1.5USD)<br>> >>> <br>> >>> However, this is just our first step and we still have so many problems to<br>> >>> fully control the fire and ease the operation.<br>> >>> 1) For instance, uncontrolled moment happened when combustion occurs rigt<br>> >>> on top of the fuel hopper, a lot of smoke was produced and later the fire<br>> >>> burnt the fan.<br>> >>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/43fkjs0axuye4oj/uncontrollable_moment.jpg<br>> >>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rd1g1cg0a9ue8qt/fan_casing.jpg<br>> >>> <br>> >>> 2) Another problem is that a lot of tar is produced. It deposits on pot<br>> >>> bottom, burner and other part of the stove. That would also harm the user.<br>> >>> An idea is to create a layer of char in the burner pipe (to filter the<br>> >>> tar). Not tried yet.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> 3) We observes 5-10% of the gas leaked out through the char removal door.<br>> >>> We burnt them, but user may not know (or they simply just don't care) that<br>> >>> it is toxic.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> 4) One more, it is very hard to control the final minutes of the<br>> >>> gasificatoin process. It always cause inverted combustion to the fuel<br>> >>> hopper.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> By this email, I would like to ask if some of you have done similar work<br>> >>> with continuous gasifier like this to share more experience. We can thus<br>> >>> reduce our time and effort in localizing this technology.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Best regards,<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Do Duc Tuong,<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Renewable Energy Advisor<br>> >>> SNV Vietnam<br>> >>> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >>> URL: <<br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/a58467e3/attachment-0001.html<br>> >>> <br>> >>> ------------------------------<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Message: 5<br>> >>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 02:55:28 +0000 (UTC)<br>> >>> From: rongretlarson@comcast.net<br>> >>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>> >>> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org>, Biochar-production<br>> >>> <Biochar-production@yahoogroups.com><br>> >>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making<br>> >>> Message-ID:<br>> >>> <<br>> >>> 1707234733.1840621.1368500128336.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Dr. Rajvanshi: cc stoves and adding "bochar-production"<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Thanks for sending us this report. A few questions<br>> >>> <br>> >>> a. This work was done in the mid '90's. What has happened recently with<br>> >>> this or similar equipment in India or your part of India? Can one now buy<br>> >>> such hardware?<br>> >>> <br>> >>> b. What caused NARI to design a pyrolyzer rather than a combustor?<br>> >>> <br>> >>> c. In the Abstract, you said the char "... .can be used as a soil<br>> >>> conditioner ." This would have been very early in the history of what we<br>> >>> now call "biochar". Was there then a market near Phaltan for such? Now?<br>> >>> <br>> >>> d. Your economics section does not show a price for char. Can you<br>> >>> guesstimate the relative value then and now for the char?<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Congratulations for what appears to have been a successful design - ahead<br>> >>> of its time..<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Ron<br>> >>> <br>> >>> ----- Original Message -----<br>> >>> From: "Nariphaltan" <nariphaltan@gmail.com><br>> >>> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<br>> >>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >>> Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<br>> >>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:08:24 PM<br>> >>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Have a look at this "char making machine".<br>> >>> www.nariphaltan.org/Gasifier.pdf<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Cheers.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Anil K Rajvanshi<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Sent from my iPad<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> On 13-May-2013, at 11:24 PM, "Frank Shields" < frank@compostlab.com ><br>> >>> wrote:<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Stovers,<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when<br>> >>> making char that is just flared off.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> I?m thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1) a<br>> >>> very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The<br>> >>> generator is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity?<br>> >>> Perhaps not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the gas<br>> >>> need not be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Thanks<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Frank<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Thanks<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Frank Shields<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> BioChar Division<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Control Laboratories, Inc.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> 42 Hangar Way<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Watsonville, CE 95076<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> (831) 724-5422 tel<br>> >>> <br>> >>> (81) 724-3188 fax<br>> >>> <br>> >>> frank@biocharlab.com<br>> >>> <br>> >>> www.controllabs.com<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <blockquote><br>> >>> <br>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>> Stoves mailing list<br>> >>> <br>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >>> <br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> </blockquote><br>> >>> <br>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>> Stoves mailing list<br>> >>> <br>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >>> <br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >>> <br>> >>> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >>> URL: <<br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/6088e3b2/attachment-0001.html<br>> >>> <br>> >>> ------------------------------<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Message: 6<br>> >>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 10:12:56 +0700<br>> >>> From: Paul Olivier <paul.olivier@esrla.com><br>> >>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>> >>> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Continuous gasifier for household scale -<br>> >>> experience sharing<br>> >>> Message-ID:<br>> >>> <<br>> >>> CAOreFvYL5d29-W4JdwJ9BHOmkkyzh2oDNKM-wp37xgGCbRhtBQ@mail.gmail.com><br>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>> >>> <br>> >>> The moment one goes from batch to continuous, the process gets really<br>> >>> complicated. Nothing beats the simplicity of a static batch reactor.<br>> >>> It provides ideal gasification conditions. The problem regarding the<br>> >>> length of the batch cycle can be overcome if the fuel is densified. If<br>> >>> the reactor is filled with pellets, the length of the cycle can be<br>> >>> extended to well over five hours. Imagine: for a five full hours, the<br>> >>> operator does not have to intervene. There is no loading of rice hulls<br>> >>> or scrapping out of biochar during this entire period.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Paper/Presentations/Gasification.ppsx<br>> >>> The time to empty, reload and relight a batch reactor is less than one<br>> >>> minute.<br>> >>> Several reactor tubes can be operated at the same time.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Thanks.<br>> >>> Paul Olivier<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Tuong DoDuc<br>> >>> <tuong.do@devi-renewable.com> wrote:<br>> >>>> Dear Dr.TLUD, Paul Oliver, and others,<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> The team in SNV Vietnam is adopting the continous gasifier model<br>> >>> developed<br>> >>>> by Belonio. The manual has been obtained from the CRHET.<br>> >>>> Watch our first propotype: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQGS-VQIj5M<br>> >>>> We were able to control the fire, load fuel without affecting the fire,<br>> >>> and<br>> >>>> easily remove char at the bottom of the reactor.<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> We also adopted the computer fan-casing by a cheaper, more popular fan<br>> >>> in<br>> >>>> Vietnam (often used for coal and fixed wood stove). Fan costed 2USD<br>> >>> (while<br>> >>>> to replicate Belonio's fan-casing, we bought the adapter for 5USD and a<br>> >>>> computer fan for 1.5USD)<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> However, this is just our first step and we still have so many problems<br>> >>> to<br>> >>>> fully control the fire and ease the operation.<br>> >>>> 1) For instance, uncontrolled moment happened when combustion occurs<br>> >>> rigt on<br>> >>>> top of the fuel hopper, a lot of smoke was produced and later the fire<br>> >>> burnt<br>> >>>> the fan.<br>> >>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/43fkjs0axuye4oj/uncontrollable_moment.jpg<br>> >>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rd1g1cg0a9ue8qt/fan_casing.jpg<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> 2) Another problem is that a lot of tar is produced. It deposits on pot<br>> >>>> bottom, burner and other part of the stove. That would also harm the<br>> >>> user.<br>> >>>> An idea is to create a layer of char in the burner pipe (to filter the<br>> >>> tar).<br>> >>>> Not tried yet.<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> 3) We observes 5-10% of the gas leaked out through the char removal<br>> >>> door. We<br>> >>>> burnt them, but user may not know (or they simply just don't care) that<br>> >>> it<br>> >>>> is toxic.<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> 4) One more, it is very hard to control the final minutes of the<br>> >>>> gasificatoin process. It always cause inverted combustion to the fuel<br>> >>>> hopper.<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> By this email, I would like to ask if some of you have done similar work<br>> >>>> with continuous gasifier like this to share more experience. We can thus<br>> >>>> reduce our time and effort in localizing this technology.<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Best regards,<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Do Duc Tuong,<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Renewable Energy Advisor<br>> >>>> SNV Vietnam<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>>> Stoves mailing list<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >>>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> --<br>> >>> Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>> >>> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong<br>> >>> Dalat<br>> >>> Vietnam<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)<br>> >>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>> >>> Skype address: Xpolivier<br>> >>> http://www.esrla.com/<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> ------------------------------<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Message: 7<br>> >>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 18:03:54 +0700<br>> >>> From: Tuong DoDuc <tuong.do@devi-renewable.com><br>> >>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>> >>> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Continuous gasifier for household scale -<br>> >>> experience sharing<br>> >>> Message-ID:<br>> >>> <<br>> >>> CAJaUSMON7XTbFRSgU5Q-Nv9j8pqFa2uyFvakoBN2QqLVthp+pw@mail.gmail.com><br>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Thanks Paul Oliver,<br>> >>> <br>> >>> I went through your presentation several times before.<br>> >>> I must say that It is very convincing and inspiring as well.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Regarding the continous feed concept, I think it is a trade-off.<br>> >>> One one side, we will tell the users all the pros anc cons and let them<br>> >>> decide to choose what they like.<br>> >>> In this case, we will leave several different options for the users by a<br>> >>> field test of different gasifier models.<br>> >>> The user will tell. At this development stage of the continuous gasifier,<br>> >>> I<br>> >>> can't tell which (batch or continuous) suits the user most. Especially,<br>> >>> there is no one-size-fits-all solution<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Best regards,<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Tuong<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Paul Olivier <paul.olivier@esrla.com<br>> >>>> wrote:<br>> >>> <br>> >>>> The moment one goes from batch to continuous, the process gets really<br>> >>>> complicated. Nothing beats the simplicity of a static batch reactor.<br>> >>>> It provides ideal gasification conditions. The problem regarding the<br>> >>>> length of the batch cycle can be overcome if the fuel is densified. If<br>> >>>> the reactor is filled with pellets, the length of the cycle can be<br>> >>>> extended to well over five hours. Imagine: for a five full hours, the<br>> >>>> operator does not have to intervene. There is no loading of rice hulls<br>> >>>> or scrapping out of biochar during this entire period.<br>> >>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Paper/Presentations/Gasification.ppsx<br>> >>>> The time to empty, reload and relight a batch reactor is less than one<br>> >>>> minute.<br>> >>>> Several reactor tubes can be operated at the same time.<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Thanks.<br>> >>>> Paul Olivier<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Tuong DoDuc<br>> >>>> <tuong.do@devi-renewable.com> wrote:<br>> >>>>> Dear Dr.TLUD, Paul Oliver, and others,<br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> The team in SNV Vietnam is adopting the continous gasifier model<br>> >>>> developed<br>> >>>>> by Belonio. The manual has been obtained from the CRHET.<br>> >>>>> Watch our first propotype: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQGS-VQIj5M<br>> >>>>> We were able to control the fire, load fuel without affecting the<br>> >>> fire,<br>> >>>> and<br>> >>>>> easily remove char at the bottom of the reactor.<br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> We also adopted the computer fan-casing by a cheaper, more popular<br>> >>> fan in<br>> >>>>> Vietnam (often used for coal and fixed wood stove). Fan costed 2USD<br>> >>>> (while<br>> >>>>> to replicate Belonio's fan-casing, we bought the adapter for 5USD and<br>> >>> a<br>> >>>>> computer fan for 1.5USD)<br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> However, this is just our first step and we still have so many<br>> >>> problems<br>> >>>> to<br>> >>>>> fully control the fire and ease the operation.<br>> >>>>> 1) For instance, uncontrolled moment happened when combustion occurs<br>> >>>> rigt on<br>> >>>>> top of the fuel hopper, a lot of smoke was produced and later the fire<br>> >>>> burnt<br>> >>>>> the fan.<br>> >>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/43fkjs0axuye4oj/uncontrollable_moment.jpg<br>> >>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rd1g1cg0a9ue8qt/fan_casing.jpg<br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> 2) Another problem is that a lot of tar is produced. It deposits on<br>> >>> pot<br>> >>>>> bottom, burner and other part of the stove. That would also harm the<br>> >>>> user.<br>> >>>>> An idea is to create a layer of char in the burner pipe (to filter the<br>> >>>> tar).<br>> >>>>> Not tried yet.<br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> 3) We observes 5-10% of the gas leaked out through the char removal<br>> >>>> door. We<br>> >>>>> burnt them, but user may not know (or they simply just don't care)<br>> >>> that<br>> >>>> it<br>> >>>>> is toxic.<br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> 4) One more, it is very hard to control the final minutes of the<br>> >>>>> gasificatoin process. It always cause inverted combustion to the fuel<br>> >>>>> hopper.<br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> By this email, I would like to ask if some of you have done similar<br>> >>> work<br>> >>>>> with continuous gasifier like this to share more experience. We can<br>> >>> thus<br>> >>>>> reduce our time and effort in localizing this technology.<br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> Best regards,<br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> Do Duc Tuong,<br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> Renewable Energy Advisor<br>> >>>>> SNV Vietnam<br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>>>> Stoves mailing list<br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >>>>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web<br>> >>> site:<br>> >>>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> --<br>> >>>> Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>> >>>> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong<br>> >>>> Dalat<br>> >>>> Vietnam<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)<br>> >>>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>> >>>> Skype address: Xpolivier<br>> >>>> http://www.esrla.com/<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>>> Stoves mailing list<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >>>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >>> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >>> URL: <<br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/9182fc38/attachment-0001.html<br>> >>> <br>> >>> ------------------------------<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Message: 8<br>> >>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 16:39:47 +0530<br>> >>> From: Nariphaltan <nariphaltan@gmail.com><br>> >>> To: "rongretlarson@comcast.net" <rongretlarson@comcast.net><br>> >>> Cc: Biochar-production <Biochar-production@yahoogroups.com>,<br>> >>> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <<br>> >>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making<br>> >>> Message-ID: <B08F79A0-7233-4B92-A188-A7C5BA79BB21@gmail.com><br>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Dear Ron,<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Thanks for your mail. We did this work when very few people were<br>> >>> interested in loose leafy gasifier. It was designed so that the flow is<br>> >>> smooth and hence the best strategy was to pyrolyse the biomass rather than<br>> >>> gasify it. In the process we also generated 25% char (w/w feed basis).<br>> >>> Since we are an agricultural research Institute hence we thought of using<br>> >>> this char as a soil conditioner. This was in 1990-1992. Because of the<br>> >>> pioneer nature of this work the gasifier together with the char in the<br>> >>> field was on cover of International Journal of Biomass Energy (David Hall<br>> >>> used to be the editor of the Journal).<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Why we left this work? This is a long story but we moved on to other<br>> >>> things and partly because no body was interested in the biomass research at<br>> >>> that time.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Still I think Our work can be inspiration to lots of people.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> All the best.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Anil<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Anil K Rajvanshi<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Sent from my iPad<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> On 14-May-2013, at 8:25 AM, rongretlarson@comcast.net wrote:<br>> >>> <br>> >>>> Dr. Rajvanshi: cc stoves and adding "bochar-production"<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Thanks for sending us this report. A few questions<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> a. This work was done in the mid '90's. What has happened recently<br>> >>> with this or similar equipment in India or your part of India? Can one<br>> >>> now buy such hardware?<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> b. What caused NARI to design a pyrolyzer rather than a combustor?<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> c. In the Abstract, you said the char "....can be used as a soil<br>> >>> conditioner." This would have been very early in the history of what we<br>> >>> now call "biochar". Was there then a market near Phaltan for such? Now?<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> d. Your economics section does not show a price for char. Can you<br>> >>> guesstimate the relative value then and now for the char?<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Congratulations for what appears to have been a successful design<br>> >>> - ahead of its time..<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Ron<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> From: "Nariphaltan" <nariphaltan@gmail.com><br>> >>>> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<br>> >>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >>>> Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<br>> >>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:08:24 PM<br>> >>>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Have a look at this "char making machine".<br>> >>> www.nariphaltan.org/Gasifier.pdf<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Cheers.<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Anil K Rajvanshi<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Sent from my iPad<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> On 13-May-2013, at 11:24 PM, "Frank Shields" <frank@compostlab.com><br>> >>> wrote:<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Stovers,<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when<br>> >>> making char that is just flared off.<br>> >>>> I?m thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1)<br>> >>> a very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The<br>> >>> generator is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity?<br>> >>> Perhaps not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the gas<br>> >>> need not be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine.<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Thanks<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Frank<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Thanks<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Frank Shields<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> BioChar Division<br>> >>>> Control Laboratories, Inc.<br>> >>>> 42 Hangar Way<br>> >>>> Watsonville, CE 95076<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> (831) 724-5422 tel<br>> >>>> (81) 724-3188 fax<br>> >>>> frank@biocharlab.com<br>> >>>> www.controllabs.com<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>>> Stoves mailing list<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >>>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>>> Stoves mailing list<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >>>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >>> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >>> URL: <<br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/88a3f211/attachment-0001.html<br>> >>> <br>> >>> ------------------------------<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Message: 9<br>> >>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 07:56:44 -0700<br>> >>> From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles@trmiles.com><br>> >>> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"<br>> >>> <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org>, <<br>> >>> rongretlarson@comcast.net><br>> >>> Cc: 'Biochar-production' <Biochar-production@yahoogroups.com><br>> >>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making<br>> >>> Message-ID: <00a301ce50b3$40e683e0$c2b38ba0$@trmiles.com><br>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Anil,<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Thanks for bringing this out.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> At the time (1975-1995) there were efforts to convert straws and crop<br>> >>> residues to energy, particularly in France (at AFME, CEMAGREF, Pillard,<br>> >>> etc.). In most cases the char was considered a potential domestic fuel<br>> >>> rather than for agriculture. European demand for charcoal was high. French<br>> >>> wood pyrolysis and gasification plants were still in operation and in<br>> >>> development. (The downdraft gasifier that we associate with Hitler was<br>> >>> invented in France in the 1930s.)<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> As you remember David Hall made a concerted effort to improve<br>> >>> carbonization and energy systems in agriculture.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Tom<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf<br>> >>> Of Nariphaltan<br>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 4:10 AM<br>> >>> To: rongretlarson@comcast.net<br>> >>> Cc: Biochar-production; Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>> >>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Dear Ron,<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Thanks for your mail. We did this work when very few people were<br>> >>> interested in loose leafy gasifier. It was designed so that the flow is<br>> >>> smooth and hence the best strategy was to pyrolyse the biomass rather than<br>> >>> gasify it. In the process we also generated 25% char (w/w feed basis).<br>> >>> Since we are an agricultural research Institute hence we thought of using<br>> >>> this char as a soil conditioner. This was in 1990-1992. Because of the<br>> >>> pioneer nature of this work the gasifier together with the char in the<br>> >>> field was on cover of International Journal of Biomass Energy (David Hall<br>> >>> used to be the editor of the Journal).<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Why we left this work? This is a long story but we moved on to other<br>> >>> things and partly because no body was interested in the biomass research at<br>> >>> that time.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Still I think Our work can be inspiration to lots of people.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> All the best.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Anil<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Anil K Rajvanshi<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Sent from my iPad<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> On 14-May-2013, at 8:25 AM, rongretlarson@comcast.net wrote:<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Dr. Rajvanshi: cc stoves and adding "bochar-production"<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Thanks for sending us this report. A few questions<br>> >>> <br>> >>> a. This work was done in the mid '90's. What has happened recently with<br>> >>> this or similar equipment in India or your part of India? Can one now buy<br>> >>> such hardware?<br>> >>> <br>> >>> b. What caused NARI to design a pyrolyzer rather than a combustor?<br>> >>> <br>> >>> c. In the Abstract, you said the char "....can be used as a soil<br>> >>> conditioner." This would have been very early in the history of what we<br>> >>> now call "biochar". Was there then a market near Phaltan for such? Now?<br>> >>> <br>> >>> d. Your economics section does not show a price for char. Can you<br>> >>> guesstimate the relative value then and now for the char?<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Congratulations for what appears to have been a successful design -<br>> >>> ahead of its time..<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Ron<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> _____<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> From: "Nariphaltan" <nariphaltan@gmail.com><br>> >>> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<br>> >>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >>> Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<br>> >>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>> >>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:08:24 PM<br>> >>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Have a look at this "char making machine".<br>> >>> www.nariphaltan.org/Gasifier.pdf<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Cheers.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Anil K Rajvanshi<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Sent from my iPad<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> On 13-May-2013, at 11:24 PM, "Frank Shields" <frank@compostlab.com><br>> >>> wrote:<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Stovers,<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when<br>> >>> making char that is just flared off.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> I?m thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1) a<br>> >>> very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The<br>> >>> generator is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity?<br>> >>> Perhaps not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the gas<br>> >>> need not be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Thanks<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Frank<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Thanks<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> Frank Shields<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> BioChar Division<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Control Laboratories, Inc.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> 42 Hangar Way<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Watsonville, CE 95076<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> (831) 724-5422 tel<br>> >>> <br>> >>> (81) 724-3188 fax<br>> >>> <br>> >>> frank@biocharlab.com<br>> >>> <br>> >>> www.controllabs.com<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>> Stoves mailing list<br>> >>> <br>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >>> <br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>> Stoves mailing list<br>> >>> <br>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >>> <br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >>> <br>> >>> -------------- next part --------------<br>> >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> >>> URL: <<br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/67811ee2/attachment.html<br>> >>> <br>> >>> ------------------------------<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Subject: Digest Footer<br>> >>> <br>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>> Stoves mailing list<br>> >>> <br>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >>> <br>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> ------------------------------<br>> >>> <br>> >>> End of Stoves Digest, Vol 33, Issue 18<br>> >>> **************************************<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> --<br>> >> Art Donnelly<br>> >> President SeaChar.Org<br>> >> US Director, The Farm Stove Project<br>> >> Proyecto Estufa Finca<br>> >> <br>> >> <http://email2.globalgiving.org/wf/click?c=1Oy%2FmZbgIyjS5WI580KXwShvfKBcF2eaJvtN7Pi6p7Jl%2FiR4938EMMCBwY%2FuYALeA%2BQYUWN4RpvnxBsBC7e2%2BGIHcONTozBmvsUU5LTL%2FTNk4Q3vxE%2BKdXTV2cxIsFplSPh%2F9nMG3bQMQf4bz9ZK9SHMy46Z8OPLAtMAnPG9SKkPuLCWvofBTLC%2BImqax%2BZTkkF2RvDri5UdgH19NHjHOBj5WMUrS4L62Z2xxUJbBsJdDUOfeifheNFXH546Xm0yul4P2stm%2FTUOJxYnI0nFjXEaYfzxDSc%2FwgqVkR1t0USDHk30%2Fgt9UpDpyzLj37HWtnNQ0q8Jh1gZCkB4Y1Fgbg394gYFkyNqFN4MchxO2Js%3D&rp=wrhiOr2wAxUyDMDlMSqbOkKa0FpPoiCSHffb%2ByfHGClRxIFjEIrUDwAF%2BFD%2BpAPuvam9BDwvSMcadhFv7aFwKoyAXYrFk00%2B92xPIeMHXaTDJ3x0VIj6ZYwjm1win65o&up=YDTqBOjidbCUo%2Far1oAtZjp5ji73zPEvmoO14mevuXzIDUdb6Ac9W13SPOXmzL5NflZkH0HxLp0v4dT9UwEHDV0wSZ1qusv09bIKkUliWs4%3D&u=LHuflw_1TAib_lgCu2JvQw%2Fh0><br>> >> "SeaChar.Org...positive tools for carbon negative living"<br>> >> <br>> >> _______________________________________________<br>> >> Stoves mailing list<br>> >> <br>> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> >> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >> <br>> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> >> <br>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> >> <br>> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>> > -------------- next part --------------<br>> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> > URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/d5cf21c4/attachment-0001.html><br>> > <br>> > ------------------------------<br>> > <br>> > Subject: Digest Footer<br>> > <br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > Stoves mailing list<br>> > <br>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> > stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> > <br>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > ------------------------------<br>> > <br>> > End of Stoves Digest, Vol 33, Issue 19<br>> > **************************************<br>> <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Stoves mailing list<br>> <br>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> <br>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>> <br>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>> <br></div> </div></body>
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