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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>Paul,<BR>I very much second your point of view and lets bring this topic to a higher level and very much considering the small holder peasant in the developing countries.<BR>They have a much greater chance or possibility to avoid the problems produced by the western societies for decades.<BR> <BR>Its time to look forward and go ahead.......................<BR> <BR>Thanks.<BR> <BR>Otto<br> <BR><div><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 15:50:34 +0700<br>From: paul.olivier@esrla.com<br>To: stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>Subject: Re: [Stoves] In praise of kerosene<br><br><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div>The editorial board of the New York Times understands the problem quite well:<br><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/19/opinion/sunday/climate-warnings-growing-louder.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130519" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/19/opinion/sunday/climate-warnings-growing-louder.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130519</a><br>
</div>What is our response?<br></div>Replacing bottled gas with syngas and enriching agricultural lands with biochar would be two very good places to start.<br><br></div>Thanks.<br></div>Paul Olivier<br></div><div class="ecxgmail_extra">
<br><br><div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 6:23 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com" target="_blank">crispinpigott@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style="padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;" class="ecxgmail_quote">
Dear Andrew C P<br>
<br>
I agree with you completely. There is plenty of room for civil discourse on<br>
complex topics that will take decades to understand.<br>
<br>
I have not considered the idea of conceit before, I viewed the attitude as<br>
arrogant self-righteousness because of the way people who dared question the<br>
priestcraft were labelled sinners, lost souls (etc).<br>
<br>
I am now a dyed-in-the-wool sceptic. When someone says they have a stove<br>
that performs like thus-and-such I immediately ask to see the protocol, the<br>
instrument list and the spreadsheet. What is happening with the Donors is<br>
they are starting to ask a lot more questions related to due diligence<br>
because a lot of money has been changing hands on pretty flimsy evidence<br>
much of which evaporates on contact.<br>
<br>
Sound familiar?<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<span class="ecxHOEnZb"><font color="#888888">Crispin<br>
</font></span><div class="ecxim ecxHOEnZb"><br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Stoves [mailto:<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] On Behalf Of<br>
</div><div class="ecxim ecxHOEnZb">Andrew C. Parker<br>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 6:25 AM<br>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
</div><div class="ecxim ecxHOEnZb">Subject: Re: [Stoves] In praise of kerosene<br>
<br>
</div><div class="ecxHOEnZb"><div class="h5">Ron,<br>
<br>
The term "denier" assumes existent truth or reality. While you obviously<br>
feel strongly that there is a preponderance of evidence and a consensus of<br>
opinion in your argument, neither the evidence nor the opinion warrant<br>
labeling those who disagree with you as deniers. It is the height of<br>
conceit to do so.<br>
<br>
Invoking the term "denier" in a post-WWII context also carries a highly<br>
pejorative connotation, equating one as capable of denying the Holocaust,<br>
and in its more recent use, as being somehow mentally and/or morally<br>
deranged. Using this term is insulting and has no place in a scientific<br>
discussion, or even a scientific argument. It certainly has not place being<br>
used on this list.<br>
<br>
I am not a denier of truth. I am a skeptic, but I am not a climate skeptic.<br>
The climate exists, it would be ludicrous for me to be skeptical of the<br>
climate. I am not skeptical of climate change. The climate changes all the<br>
time. I am not skeptical of global warming. The earth has been generally<br>
warming since the end of the Little Ice Age. I am not skeptical that we<br>
humans impact the climate. The earth has been profoundly changed by the<br>
smallest of organisms. I am skeptical about models that predict a<br>
catastrophic future because of burning fossil fuels. So, I don't mind if<br>
you call me a CAGW skeptic, but I will not accept you calling me, or anyone<br>
else who disagrees with you, a denier.<br>
<br>
<br>
Andrew Parker<br>
<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong<br>Dalat<br>Vietnam<br>
<br>Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)<br>Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>Skype address: Xpolivier<br><a href="http://www.esrla.com/" target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a>
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