<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">I concur with what Paul is saying but would add a few more "requirements".</div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">Aspirational: What do people in the less advantaged world aspire to? I would guess that it will be something like a two burner bottled gas stove: blue flames, little or no soot on pots, clean burning. Simple to use for a long as required. A key requirement may be to show that it is "good enough" for the Advantaged World too. Who wants something that is not good enough for the top of the pyramid?</div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">One of my student's kitchens, India, 2003.</div><div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jockgill/548126504/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/jockgill/548126504/</a></span></div><div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">Value creating: If it can be shown that a pyrolytic device can help move a user from "buyer to seller" of kitchen garden produce, then we have a clear winner of a "benefit". In used car lingo, money talks and nobody walks.</div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">Government support: Education, policy, & incentives.</div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">A stove that created real value, was aspiration all in nature, supported by <span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">Education, Policy, & Incentives, would have a much better chance of adoption on a broad scale.</span></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br></div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br><div>Jock Gill</div><div>P.O. Box 3</div><div>Peacham, VT 05862</div><div><br></div><div>Cell: (617) 449-8111</div><div><br></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">:> Extract CO2 from the atmosphere! <:</span></div><div><br></div>Sent from my iPad</div><div style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br>On May 26, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Paul Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite" style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><div>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear all, This is a different and
more specific reply to Otto's message.<br>
<br>
I see four things that will greatly advance the position of
micro-gasifier stoves, specifically the TLUD stoves. I am
working on all four of them.<br>
<br>
1. Prove that stove users will accept TLUD gasifier stoves (at
reasonable price, but this is not about price.) and (with a
reasonable supply chain for appropriate fuels, but this is not
about fuels) : <br>
<br>
We lack meaningful studies that show that TLUD stoves (when
available and with fuels available) are accepted by "typical"
cookstove users in any significant segment of the population. We
need some documentation that xx number of TLUD users (out of yy
number of households that seriously tried TLUD stoves) are still
using the stoves zz percent of the time for their cooking, and
this is over time periods that are checked again and again each
few months. Comments from users should be reported.<br>
<br>
Start small, and do it well. The money for the bigger studies
will follow success with the small numbers. This is NOT about
sales. This is about sustained usage.<br>
<br>
We are working on this topic at Awamu in Uganda with the Quad TLUD
stove, but no results to report at this time. Is anyone else
doing such studies?<br>
<br>
2. Compilation of past results and further data collection about
emissions and efficiencies of TLUD stoves. Some TLUD have had
major success. And others "suck". Which ones and why? We
seek data from the stove testing centers. We also will do
further work at Stove Camps in the coming 3 months.<br>
<br>
3. Prove the capacities to produce sufficient numbers of TLUD
stoves with excellent functioning. The response must be credible
for numbers of many 10s of thousands for stoves per year. 20
tinsmiths seated in a factory is not sufficient proof. Prof.
Nurhuda has shown that metal stamping can produce his TLUD stoves
with good quality. I do not doubt that capacity worldwide could
be sufficient when demand is there, but with the goal of creating
in-country jobs, for most situations "proof" is still not in hand.<br>
<br>
4. Bring the price below US$10 for the low-end products that are
still functional about emissions and efficiencies. I am working
on this and I hope to report about it at the July stove camp at
Aprovecho where TLUD stoves are a focal issue.<br>
<br>
Note that I did NOT add on having different TLUD stoves such as
the ones with fans like Ron is discussing. When they become
available, that will be wonderful. But then such stoves will
still need to be considered regarding # 1 and #2 and #3 above.
They might be the breakthrough for gaining acceptance, or lower
emissions, or whatever.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 5/26/2013 2:46 AM, Otto Formo wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Ron<br>
<br>
I do not see any point in arguing with all and anybody, to try
to convince them , that <strong>gasifing of biomass </strong>are
here to BE and will develop more rapidly, than anyone ever
belived.<br>
<br>
What about the issue of biomass as fuel?<br>
Here are a LOT of challanges in preparation, production,
handeling etc.<br>
<br>
Paul A and Ron, <br>
If, "Open Source", realy means something to you, then create a
group of "belivers" and start from there.<br>
<br>
Thanks.<br>
<br>
Otto<br>
<br>
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