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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I concur with Dr Tluds points and think in
particular Dr Belonio, Dr. Nurhuda and Paul Oliver all seem to have stoves
that could easily be poised to go commercial </FONT><FONT size=2
face=Arial>big time. They seem to work beautifully, are
physically good looking and are close to good fuel sources. In addition
</FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial>they are located in places where industrial and
mechanical means of manufature exist.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Not all of the rest of the world is so fortunate.
W</FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial>hile these stoves are relatively economical
obtaining them is another issue. While a stove could be worth $</FONT><FONT
size=2 face=Arial>25.00 $50.00 or even maybe $100.00 having to pay $200.00
$300 or $400.00 to obtain a sample for testing is beyond practicality. No matter
what efforts are expended tincanium and hammered tin has little appeal here. In
these day of ipads and iphones </FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial>style is a
major hurdle.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Lurking in the backgound at the end of the
earth.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Michael N Trevor</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Marshall Islands</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=psanders@ilstu.edu href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">Paul Anderson</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=terra-matricula@hotmail.com
href="mailto:terra-matricula@hotmail.com">Otto Formo</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, May 26, 2013 11:28 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Stoves] Specifics about
advancement of TLUD stoves Re: fan expertise?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=moz-cite-prefix>Dear all, This is a different and more
specific reply to Otto's message.<BR><BR>I see four things that will greatly
advance the position of micro-gasifier stoves, specifically the TLUD
stoves. I am working on all four of them.<BR><BR>1. Prove
that stove users will accept TLUD gasifier stoves (at reasonable price, but
this is not about price.) and (with a reasonable supply chain for appropriate
fuels, but this is not about fuels) : <BR><BR>We lack meaningful studies
that show that TLUD stoves (when available and with fuels available) are
accepted by "typical" cookstove users in any significant segment of the
population. We need some documentation that xx number of TLUD users
(out of yy number of households that seriously tried TLUD stoves) are still
using the stoves zz percent of the time for their cooking, and this is over
time periods that are checked again and again each few
months. Comments from users should be reported.<BR><BR>Start
small, and do it well. The money for the bigger studies will
follow success with the small numbers. This is NOT about
sales. This is about sustained usage.<BR><BR>We are working on
this topic at Awamu in Uganda with the Quad TLUD stove, but no results to
report at this time. Is anyone else doing such
studies?<BR><BR>2. Compilation of past results and further data
collection about emissions and efficiencies of TLUD stoves. Some TLUD
have had major success. And others "suck". Which ones
and why? We seek data from the stove testing centers.
We also will do further work at Stove Camps in the coming 3
months.<BR><BR>3. Prove the capacities to produce sufficient numbers of
TLUD stoves with excellent functioning. The response must be
credible for numbers of many 10s of thousands for stoves per year.
20 tinsmiths seated in a factory is not sufficient proof. Prof.
Nurhuda has shown that metal stamping can produce his TLUD stoves with good
quality. I do not doubt that capacity worldwide could be
sufficient when demand is there, but with the goal of creating in-country
jobs, for most situations "proof" is still not in hand.<BR><BR>4. Bring
the price below US$10 for the low-end products that are still functional about
emissions and efficiencies. I am working on this and I hope
to report about it at the July stove camp at Aprovecho where TLUD stoves are a
focal issue.<BR><BR>Note that I did NOT add on having different TLUD stoves
such as the ones with fans like Ron is discussing. When they
become available, that will be wonderful. But then such stoves will
still need to be considered regarding # 1 and #2 and #3 above.
They might be the breakthrough for gaining acceptance, or lower emissions, or
whatever.<BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR><PRE class=moz-signature cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</A> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</A></PRE>On
5/26/2013 2:46 AM, Otto Formo wrote:<BR></DIV>
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<DIV dir=ltr>Ron<BR> <BR>I do not see any point in arguing with all and
anybody, to try to convince them , that <STRONG>gasifing of biomass
</STRONG>are here to BE and will develop more rapidly, than anyone ever
belived.<BR> <BR>What about the issue of biomass as fuel?<BR>Here are a
LOT of challanges in preparation, production, handeling
etc.<BR> <BR>Paul A and Ron, <BR>If, "Open Source", realy means
something to you, then create a group of "belivers" and start from
there.<BR> <BR>Thanks.<BR> <BR>Otto<BR> <BR>
<DIV>
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