<html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'>Kevin and cc List<br><br> I presume by now, that Dean Still's kind sending in the data taken by Jim Jetter (and Dean has collected and reported the same himself) has convinced you that I was not making anything up. I repeat that this data has been on this list many times.<br><br> You have nicely proven again that AGW deniers find it difficult to absorb data that conflcts with what they are sure of (in this case that fossil fuels are no problem).<br><br> I see no reason to separate my request for you to supply cites (as did Dean) depending on what list we are conversing. I'll send others like Dean's as soon as you start supplying cites yourself.<br><br>Ron<br><br><hr id="zwchr"><b>From: </b>"Kevin" <kchisholm@ca.inter.net><br><b>To: </b>"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, May 28, 2013 8:32:47 AM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Stoves] Advancement of "better" stoves<br><br>
<style></style>
<div><font face="Arial">Dear Ron</font></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><b>From:</b>
<a title="rongretlarson@comcast.net" href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank">Ron</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:37
AM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Advancement of
"better" stoves</div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font><br>Kevin</div>
<div><br></div>
<div> I presume this question is because of my statement below
about " ...<span style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span">the need to eliminate fossil fuels
altogether..?</span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span"></span> </div>
<div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span"><strong># There is no need to assume anything. There is
no need for mis-direction. There is no need for evasion. There is no need to
attempt to change a "stoves Issue" into a "climate change issue."My questions
are clear:</strong></span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong><em>"# 1:
Specifically, what kinds of stoves are you talking about?</em></strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong><em>#2: Do
you have any measurements that you can present to show that such "carbon
negative stoves" have cleaner combustion than other stoves which are not
"carbon negative"?"</em></strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>Please
answer them.</strong></div></span></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span"><br></span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span"> My statement about superior cleanliness
for TLUDs has been on this list at least a dozen
times</span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span"></span></font> </div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span"><strong># That is an important claim, with
significant consequences, if it is true. Are you saying that TLUD's are
fundamentally cleaner than "full combustion stoves? Have you ever provided
factual and credible stove test data that to support your statement? If you do
have, and if you can present, such data, it will go a long way to support your
claim. </strong></span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span"><strong></strong></span></font><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span"></span></font> </div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span"> - especially from Dean and Paul
Anderson. </span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span"></span></font> </div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span"><strong># I am asking you, but equivalent answers from
them would also be very helpful.</strong></span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span"></span></font> </div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span"> Look up what is said about the Philips
stove.</span></font></div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span"></span></font></blockquote>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span"><strong># You made a bold and important claim. and in
Science, it is up to you to prove that you are right. If you can't prove that
you are right, then your "bold and important claim" is irresponsible. Does the
Philips stove have cleaner combustion than "full combustion stoves"? I would
like to see the data and test protocol employed. Please provide it to the
Stoves List, to support your claim.</strong>
<div><br></div></span></font>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span"><br></span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span"> I'll go doing a bigger search as
soon as you answer mr last request for a real cite?</span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span"></span></font> </div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span"><strong># Your reference to a "cite" was in a
discussion on another List. It would not be advantageous to the stoves List to
bring that discussion here.</strong></span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span"><strong></strong></span></font> </div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span"><strong># Please provide test data, to support your
claim. I would be looking for an "apples and apples comparison", ie, a "good
full combustion stove compared with a good TLUD", and not an "apples and
lemons comparison" , ie, </strong></span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span"><strong>"a 3-stone fire compared with a good
TLUD"</strong></span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span"><strong></strong></span></font> </div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span"><strong>Kevin</strong></span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span"><br></span></font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial"><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)" class="Apple-style-span">Ron</span></font></div>
<div><br>On May 27, 2013, at 8:08 PM, "Kevin" <<a href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net" target="_blank">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</a>>
wrote:<br><br></div>
<div></div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div><font face="Arial">Dear Ron</font></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><b>From:</b>
<a title="rongretlarson@comcast.net" href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>
</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Discussion of biomass
cooking stoves</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 27, 2013 1:39
PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Advancement of
"better" stoves</div>
<div><br></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Dean:<br><br>
I know you know this, but some of us are in the stove development
"business" because we want messages like yours below to also include the
words "carbon negative" Surprisingly, those stoves that can be
carbon negative seem also to have the cleanest combustion.
</div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>#
1: Specifically, what kinds of stoves are you talking
about?</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>#2: Do
you have any measurements that you can present to show that such "carbon
negative stoves" have cleaner combustion than other stoves which are not
"carbon negative"?</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong></strong> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>Thanks.</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong></strong> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><strong>Kevin</strong></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Paul O's
seems to be in this nice class. This is not to mention the
global need for soil improvement, the need to eliminate fossil fuels
altogether, and other benefits like low or negative annual cost that come
with biochar<br><br> I repeat that I know you know
this. Some on this list don't.
<br><br> Thanks for all that you and Aprovecho are doing
to advance the science of (especially clean) stove
operation.<br><br> Ron<br><br></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<hr id="zwchr">
</div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><b>From:
</b>"Dean Still" <<a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com" target="_blank">deankstill@gmail.com</a>><br><b>To:
</b>"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br><b>Sent:
</b>Monday, May 27, 2013 9:47:12 AM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Stoves]
Advancement of "better" stoves<br><br>Hi All,</div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><br></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Let's
remember that although burning natural gas when cooking adds CO2 to the
atmosphere and sustainably harvested biomass can be carbon neutral, the
biomass has to be completely combusted not to damage health,
etc. </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><br></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Complete
combustion of biomass is a goal not yet a reality.</div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><br></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Best,</div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><br></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Dean<br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Paul Olivier <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Design stoves that are functional, safe and efficient. And don't
forget, to design stoves that can be situated in modern kitchens.
Getting rich people in developed countries to use biomass stoves should
be one of our big priorities. I think that many of us grossly
underestimate the power of the tlud concept. Imagine a small tlud less
than 10 inches in height; made of high quality, long-lasting stainless
steel; holding no more than about three or four cups of wood or straw
pellets; capable of putting out 2 to 3 kW of heat over enough time to
cook an average meal; elegantly contoured to match in beauty high-end
kitchen accessories. Such a stove need not cost more than $50 US to
fabricate. It would produce a beautiful blue flame that would rival that
of a bottled gas stove. It would produce a valuable biochar for farms
and gardens. It would be proudly used in London or Laos, Boston or
Bangladesh. It would appeal to rich and poor alike. <br><br>Of course we
can build cheap, tin can stoves. But why should we expect poor people to
use them, while we would never dream of doing so, except, perhaps, on an
occasional camping trip?<br><br></div>Paul Olivier<br></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 7:12 PM, mtrevor <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mtrevor@ntamar.net" target="_blank">mtrevor@ntamar.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote"><u></u>
<div>
<div><font face="Arial">I concur with Dr Tluds points and think in
particular Dr Belonio, Dr. Nurhuda and Paul Oliver all seem to
have stoves that could easily be poised to go commercial
</font><font face="Arial">big time. They seem to
work beautifully, are physically good looking and are close
to good fuel sources. In addition </font><font face="Arial">they are
located in places where industrial and mechanical means of manufature
exist.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">Not all of the rest of the world is so
fortunate. W</font><font face="Arial">hile these stoves are relatively
economical obtaining them is another issue. While a stove could be
worth $</font><font face="Arial">25.00 $50.00 or even maybe
$100.00 having to pay $200.00 $300 or $400.00 to obtain a sample
for testing is beyond practicality. No matter what efforts are
expended tincanium and hammered tin has little appeal here. In these
day of ipads and iphones </font><font face="Arial">style is a major
hurdle.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Lurking in the backgound at the end of the
earth.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Michael N Trevor</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">Marshall Islands</font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><b>From:</b> <a title="psanders@ilstu.edu" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">Paul Anderson</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Cc:</b> <a title="terra-matricula@hotmail.com" href="mailto:terra-matricula@hotmail.com" target="_blank">Otto
Formo</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, May 26, 2013
11:28 PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> [Stoves] Specifics
about advancement of TLUD stoves Re: fan expertise?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Dear all, This is a different and more specific
reply to Otto's message.<br><br>I see four things that will greatly
advance the position of micro-gasifier stoves, specifically the TLUD
stoves. I am working on all four of
them.<br><br>1. Prove that stove users will accept TLUD
gasifier stoves (at reasonable price, but this is not about price.)
and (with a reasonable supply chain for appropriate fuels, but this
is not about fuels) : <br><br>We lack meaningful studies that
show that TLUD stoves (when available and with fuels available) are
accepted by "typical" cookstove users in any significant segment of
the population. We need some documentation that xx number of
TLUD users (out of yy number of households that seriously tried TLUD
stoves) are still using the stoves zz percent of the time for their
cooking, and this is over time periods that are checked again and
again each few months. Comments from users should
be reported.<br><br>Start small, and do it well. The
money for the bigger studies will follow success with the small
numbers. This is NOT about sales. This
is about sustained usage.<br><br>We are working on this topic at
Awamu in Uganda with the Quad TLUD stove, but no results to report
at this time. Is anyone else doing such
studies?<br><br>2. Compilation of past results and further
data collection about emissions and efficiencies of TLUD
stoves. Some TLUD have had major success. And
others "suck". Which ones and why? We seek
data from the stove testing centers. We also will do
further work at Stove Camps in the coming 3 months.<br><br>3.
Prove the capacities to produce sufficient numbers of TLUD stoves
with excellent functioning. The response must be
credible for numbers of many 10s of thousands for stoves per
year. 20 tinsmiths seated in a factory is not sufficient
proof. Prof. Nurhuda has shown that metal stamping can
produce his TLUD stoves with good quality. I do not
doubt that capacity worldwide could be sufficient when demand is
there, but with the goal of creating in-country jobs, for most
situations "proof" is still not in hand.<br><br>4. Bring the
price below US$10 for the low-end products that are still functional
about emissions and efficiencies. I am working on
this and I hope to report about it at the July stove camp at
Aprovecho where TLUD stoves are a focal issue.<br><br>Note that I
did NOT add on having different TLUD stoves such as the ones with
fans like Ron is discussing. When they become available,
that will be wonderful. But then such stoves will still need
to be considered regarding # 1 and #2 and #3 above. They
might be the breakthrough for gaining acceptance, or lower
emissions, or whatever.<br><br>Paul<br><br><pre>Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a>
Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>On
5/26/2013 2:46 AM, Otto Formo wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote>
<div dir="ltr">Ron<br> <br>I do not see any point in arguing
with all and anybody, to try to convince them , that
<strong>gasifing of biomass </strong>are here to BE and will
develop more rapidly, than anyone ever belived.<br> <br>What
about the issue of biomass as fuel?<br>Here are a LOT of
challanges in preparation, production, handeling
etc.<br> <br>Paul A and Ron, <br>If, "Open Source", realy
means something to you, then create a group of "belivers" and
start from
there.<br> <br>Thanks.<br> <br>Otto<br> <br>
<div>
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<p align="left">No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a><br>Version:
2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3184/6358 - Release Date: 05/25/13</p>
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site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br><br></blockquote></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Paul A.
Olivier PhD<br>26/5 Phu Dong Thien
Vuong<br>Dalat<br>Vietnam<br><br>Louisiana telephone: <a href="tel:1-337-447-4124" target="_blank">1-337-447-4124</a> (rings
Vietnam)<br>Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>Skype address:
Xpolivier<br><a href="http://www.esrla.com/" target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a>
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