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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear all,<br>
<br>
Here is a link for largest of grinders from Cabelas. US$680<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabelas-Commercial-Grade-1-12-hp-Electric-Grinder/1646476.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch%2F%3FN%3D%26No%3D0%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3Dmeat%2Bgrinder%26Ntx%3Dmode%252Bmatchallpartial%26WTz_l%3DHeader%253BSearch-All%2BProducts%26WTz_st%3D%26WTz_stype%3DSP%26form_state%3DsearchForm%26recordsPerPage%3D20%26search%3Dmeat%2Bgrinder%26searchTypeByFilter%3DAllProducts%26x%3D0%26y%3D0&Ntt=meat+grinder&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products">http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabelas-Commercial-Grade-1-12-hp-Electric-Grinder/1646476.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch%2F%3FN%3D%26No%3D0%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3Dmeat%2Bgrinder%26Ntx%3Dmode%252Bmatchallpartial%26WTz_l%3DHeader%253BSearch-All%2BProducts%26WTz_st%3D%26WTz_stype%3DSP%26form_state%3DsearchForm%26recordsPerPage%3D20%26search%3Dmeat%2Bgrinder%26searchTypeByFilter%3DAllProducts%26x%
3D0%26y
%3D0&Ntt=meat+grinder&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products</a></blockquote>
<br>
We would LOVE to have some fuel samples that have been made with
things like meat grinders. As Paal Wendelbo correctly says,
"Start with the fuels!!" With an assured fuel supply at
reasonable cost and quality, getting a TLUD to work well with it
is relatively straight forward.<br>
<br>
I cannot take on this fuels research, but I will assist others.
I hope that others are already doing it or are willing to get
involved. Looking forward to comments.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 6/11/2013 11:14 AM, Tom Miles wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:002c01ce66be$c3f7a810$4be6f830$@trmiles.com"
type="cite">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Paul,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Look
for their meat grinder. If you have a cake or meal like fuel
you can make a wet meal and extrude spaghetti-like pellets
that are cut off as you make them. Then dry it. You end up
with a dried lump like Jeff Davis’ fireballs – a low density
but nicely shaped fuel pellet. Dog food is made the same
way. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">We
use the technique for making pellets for fiber and seed
mixes but there is no reason why you can’t make fuel pellets
that way. We have seen this technique used for cooking
stoves in small projects in India and China. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
advantage for a stove fuel is that making a wet meal and
drying it is a low energy process. When we used to make ag
pellets with binders we probably used about 30-50 kWh/ton.
In the 1980s pellet mills were re-designed to make dense
fuel pellets that depend on heating the fiber to 90 C in the
die to enhance adhesion through hydrogen (paper) bonding and
lignin flow. Specific power consumption increased to 75-100
kWh/ton in the pellet mill because yiou are converting
electrical energy to heat. Particles need to be dry (<8%
MC) and fine (<6 mm) to make a good pellet. Christa has a
small, capacity, mill that makes fuel pellets in this way.
There are also the Chinese mills with vertical dies that can
be used. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Remember
Jeff Davis’ fireballs? He put wet fuel into a cement mixer,
rolled it into balls and dried it out. He showed that it
made great fuel for a TLUD gasifier. Why not a stove?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Tom<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
Paul Anderson [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 11, 2013 6:20 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Tom Miles<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] wheat husk pellets<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tom,<br>
<br>
My quick look at Cabela's site did not turn up any pellet or
briquette maker. Please provide a link.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Website: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 6/11/2013 7:25 AM, Tom Miles wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
world is full of failed densification systems. You don’t
have to go all the way to a high density (35 lb/ft3) fuel
pellet. Put the crumbled cake through a meat grinder with
a large sieve and dry out the pellets. Make’s a great
fuel. $1,000 from Cabela’s. It’s a mini version of
Richard’s press. There are Chinese versions of course. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Tom</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Stoves [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>mtrevor<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 11, 2013 4:25 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] wheat husk pellets</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I
absolutely agree with you right down the line, however I
am generally the odd man out.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The
only pelleting machine they had here was in the copra
mill for the cake. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">It
was phased out years ago Now they just move bulk
crumble. Even though you do not approve</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">the
crumbled cake burned nicely in my XL woodgas stove. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">There
is no coir dust as the is no industrial processing of
husks. Beside the husks are spread ove an area </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">maybe
1/3 of the entire United States</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">there
is a very small scale briquetting operation based on one
of Richard Stanley's </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">lever
press and scrap paper at the local waste company.
Effective processing of biomass waste would be important
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">but
its limited diffuse distributed nature makes this nearly
impossible. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">There
are some real challenges involved here.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Michael
N Trevor. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">. </span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid black
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">-----
Original Message ----- </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:#E4E4E4"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com"
title="paul.olivier@esrla.com">Paul Olivier</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">To:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion
of biomass cooking stoves</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Sent:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
Tuesday, June 11, 2013 8:29 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Subject:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
Re: [Stoves] wheat husk pellets</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Michael,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Can you access pellets in
the Marshal Islands?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Do you have coconut dust in
the Marshal Islands?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Coconut dust is in an ideal
powder form for pelletizing,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> and it contains a lot of lignin
that should serve as a natural binder.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I would urge funding agencies to
get involved in the finance of pellet machines
throughout the world.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Funding agencies should also be
investing heavily in biochar research.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">When farmers understand the value
of biochar, it will acquire value.<br>
Its sale will cover the cost of making pellets.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Once again, fuel preparation is
critical.<br>
Imagine where the coal industry would be without coal
preparation.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">There are a lot of bad fuels out
there, such as coconut dust, that need to be prepared.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Paul<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Jun 11,
2013 at 2:44 PM, mtrevor <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mtrevor@ntamar.net"
target="_blank">mtrevor@ntamar.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Dear
Paul </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">If
you start making this unit
please advise.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Thank
you</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Michael
N Trevor</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Majuro
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Marshall
islands</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">n</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">-----
Original Message ----- </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:#E4E4E4"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank"
title="paul.olivier@esrla.com">Paul
Olivier</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">To:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank"
title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion
of biomass cooking
stoves</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Sent:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
Tuesday, June 11, 2013
6:54 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Subject:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
Re: [Stoves] wheat husk
pellets</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In my
previous email I concluded
by saying:<br>
<i>What's needed above all
else, in my opinion, are
small, beautiful TLUD's
that make use of
pellets. Such units
could be situated in
modern kitchens
throughout the world.
Once these units are in
place, the rest will
follow.</i><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
It seems that Home
Depot, Wal-mart, Lowes,
Ace, Agway and many
others large retailers
in the USA all carry
wood pellets. Why can we
not make TLUDs that make
use of these pellets as
fuel? The only thing
that changes is the
height of the reactor:
it's much less than the
height of a reactor that
uses undensified
biomass. This means that
the TLUD is small,
lightweight, mobile and
much cheaper.<br>
<br>
Here is an example of
what I am talking about:<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier/Short/DrawingsUltra/001.pdf"
target="_blank">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier/Short/DrawingsUltra/001.pdf</a><br>
The total height of the
reactor is less than 10
inches.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This
reactor holds about 2
kgs of pellets.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This
gives a burn time of
about one and a half
hours.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The
reactor itself in 304
stainless steel weighs
less than 1.5 kgs.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We've
already tested taller
TLUDs on rice hull
pellets,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> and
they emit the same
beautiful blue flame as
when loose rice hulls
are used.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Another
big advantage of pellets
is that there is much
less particulate matter
emissions compared to
loose rice hulls.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Loose
rice hulls are dusty,
messy, bulky and a real
nuisance to store and
load.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In an
urban setting it makes
no sense to be hauling
in loose rice hulls of a
bulk density of only 80
kg/m3.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If
we're going to compete
with fossil fuel gas,
we've must reach a certain
level of convenience and
ease of use.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Paul<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On
Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at
6:11 AM, Paul Olivier
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">See
comments below.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">On
Mon, Jun 10,
2013 at 7:01 PM,
Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com" target="_blank">crispinpigott@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Dear
Paul O<br>
<br>
The reason is
economics.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">In
may cases
transport
distances are
short, and the
economics are
quite good, and
yet we
complacently
continue to burn
fossil fuels. I
lived for over
20 years in West
Flanders in
Belgium where
wheat fields
encroached upon
densely
populated rural
areas, and yet
everyone merrily
burned LPG gas
to cook a meal.
Later I move to
Waxahachie,
Texas, a small
town near
Dallas, and once
again, wheat
fields were
everywhere. Yet
no one dreamed
of making wheat
husk or wheat
straw pellets
and using them
to make syngas
to cook a meal.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in
0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br>
China is
showing at the
moment that
the maximum
radius that is
viable to
transport
pellets/briquettes
is 150 km.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">China
appears to be
struggling with
a lack of
infrastructure
in getting
pellets to
market. How does
one explain the
economics of
shipping coffee
husk pellets
from Brazil to
Holland as we
see in this
link? <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.coffeehabitat.com/2007/10/coffee-husks-as/"
target="_blank">http://www.coffeehabitat.com/2007/10/coffee-husks-as/</a>
This is a
thoroughly bold
undertaking, but
does it make
sense to
transport coffee
husk pellets
half way around
the world to
provide fuel for
Dutch power
stations? Why
not make use of
these pellets in
Brazil? Also,
one might argue
that the highest
and best use of
coffee husk
pellets would
be, not to burn
them in huge
power stations,
but to generate
from them a
syngas that
would replace
bottled gas or
other forms of
fossil fuel gas.
The biochar left
over from these
stoves would
then be returned
to the soil.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in
0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br>
$76 a ton is
cheap by
Canadian
standards but
far higher
than the price
of coal per
delivered MJ.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Not
always so.
Vietnamese coal
coming from the
north costs more
per delivered MJ
than rice hulls
pellets. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">In
Vietnam there is
a huge
multi-billion
dollar
infrastructure
that underlies
the mining,
preparation and
transportation
of coal.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">This
infrastructure
does not yet
exist for waste
biomass pellets.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in
0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br>
Agri-waste
pellets are a
nice fuel
provided they
have been
prepared
properly.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">The
same applies to
coal and all
other fossil
fuels.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Coal
preparation is a
gigantic and
complex
undertaking.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in
0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br>
If the value
of char is
'always there'
it is quite
possible the
economic
equation will
change with
the
introduction
of gasifiers,
however the
same energy
production
rate will
increase the
demand for
transport and
raw husk
supply.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Yes, you are right. The introduction of
pellet gasifiers
in a given area
will create a
demand for
pellets, and the
demand for
pellets will
stimulate the
construction of
the
infrastructure
needed to meet
this demand.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in
0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br>
You know all
this. How
about giving
us an equation
or spreadsheet
that includes
the whole
value chain?<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in
0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br>
Stovers could
plug in their
local costs
and make a
comparison
between
options. In at
least <i>some
</i>circumstances
the
gasification
route would be
the most
viable.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">Instead
of using the
word "some". I
would prefer to
say "many".<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in
0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br>
The UK buys wood
pellets from
Canada to burn
in power
stations, but
that is
subsidized by
pensions
grannies and the
working poor.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Once again, why haul pellets from Canada to
the UK? Does the
UK not have an
abundance of
agricultural
waste? And once
again, should we
not focus more
on producing
syngas from
pellets and
directly using
this syngas to
cook a meal?
Burning pellets
to make
electricity is
surely not the
wisest way to
proceed,
especially if
this electricity
is used as a
source of energy
to cook a meal.
Why not bypass
the power
station
altogether?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">What's
needed above all
else, in my
opinion, are
small, beautiful
TLUD's that make
use of pellets.
Such units could
be situated in
modern kitchens
throughout the
world. Once
these units are
in place, the
rest will
follow.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in
0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br>
Regards<br>
Crispin<br>
>From
BB9900<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><br>
-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: Paul
Olivier <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com"
target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>><br>
Sender:
"Stoves" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Date: Mon, 10
Jun 2013
15:19:20<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">To: Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Reply-To:
Discussion of
biomass
cooking stoves<br>
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject:
[Stoves] wheat
husk pellets<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
-- <br>
Paul A. Olivier
PhD<br>
26/5 Phu Dong
Thien Vuong<br>
Dalat<br>
Vietnam<br>
<br>
Louisiana
telephone:
1-337-447-4124
(rings Vietnam)<br>
Mobile:
090-694-1573 (in
Vietnam)<br>
Skype address:
Xpolivier<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>
26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong<br>
Dalat<br>
Vietnam<br>
<br>
Louisiana telephone:
1-337-447-4124 (rings
Vietnam)<br>
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in
Vietnam)<br>
Skype address: Xpolivier<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.esrla.com/" target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">No virus
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<p class="MsoNormal">Version:
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<br>
-- <br>
Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>
26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong<br>
Dalat<br>
Vietnam<br>
<br>
Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124
(rings Vietnam)<br>
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>
Skype address: Xpolivier<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
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<p>No virus found in this message.<br>
Checked by AVG - <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a><br>
Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3199/6400 - Release
Date: 06/10/13<o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Stoves mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
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