<html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'>Paal cc "Stoves"<br><br> Thanks for the added information. I have seen a video of the three working together. Your word "horizontal" makes a little more sense.<br><br> The reason I asked is that, in general, I don't think it possible to make char when the primary air flow is horizontal. The reason is that the primary air will tend to flow over, rather than through, the "slumping" fuel bed.<br><br>Ron<br><br><hr id="zwchr"><b>From: </b>"Paal Wendelbo" <paaw@online.no><br><b>To: </b>"list Stove" <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br><b>Cc: </b>"Ron" <rongretlarson@comcast.net><br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, June 11, 2013 1:57:36 AM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Stoves] Insulation and stove life<br><br>Ron<br>The horizontal PP TLUD-ND is in some ways different from the vertical TLUDs. <br>The fuel which can be pellets or chopped wood is placed into 1, 2 or 3 <br>vertical simple containers called the energy units, ignited and put into the <br>stove. One unit is designed for fast cooking and one or two for simmering.<br>The units has no regulation apart from you just use one unit for smaller <br>cooking like tea or coffee, two units for heavier cooking and 3 units for <br>bigger pots. For simmering you need only one unit. For household cooking you <br>will always at least have 2 blazes working if you need it. For institutional <br>kitchen with huge pots you probably need four units for coming to a boil and <br>then only one unit for simmering. The temperature in the bakery oven will <br>cool down by moister from bread or food while cooking.<br>The fast cooking unit for household cooking are designed for 360 gr pellets <br>and will burn with a smoke and soot-less flame of around 700˚C for about 45 <br>minutes. The simmering unit is designed for 360 gr pellets and will burn <br>with a flame of 4-500 ˚C for about 60-70 minutes. It will also work with 3 <br>energy units with the same effect. It’s still under trial.<br>A bigger unit for institutional cooking is designed 1.2 kg pellets that will <br>burn with a smokeless flame of 750 ˚C for about 70-80 minutes without any <br>refilling.<br>All units are producing 20 -25% biochar and easy to recover.<br>For more information paaw@online.no<br>Regards Paal W<br><br>-----Opprinnelig melding----- <br>From: Ron<br>Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 3:52 PM<br>To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves ; paaw@online.no<br>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Insulation and stove life<br><br>Paal. Cc list<br><br>1. I don't recall seeing the word "horizontal" with Peko Pe before. Can <br>you explain or point me to a site?<br><br> 2. I agree about the temperatures needed for various cooking tasks. How <br>are you accomplishing this wide range with the Peko Pe?<br><br>Ron<br><br><br>On Jun 9, 2013, at 9:58 AM, "Paal Wendelbo" <paaw@online.no> wrote:<br><br>> Stovers<br>> Crispin is right, the best insulation is air, and arranged the right way <br>> it will give some preheating to the intake off secondary air at the same <br>> time as it will prevent destroying the metal. By natural draft you will <br>> have a yellow charcoal with a temperature of about 900˚C and by forced air <br>> you will have white charcoal of a temperature of about 1000 ˚C, the <br>> temperature blacksmiths need for forcing and welding steel.<br>> But what is convenient temperature for cooking? It is definitely not 1000 <br>> ˚C. On top of charcoal it can sometimes be too hot, on open fire from wood <br>> sometimes too low. I have found that my horizontal TLUD ND PP stove works <br>> best with a temperature about 700 ˚C for cooking, about 450 ˚C for <br>> simmering and around 200 ˚C for baking bread. And to obtain that, I need <br>> no insulation anywhere in the stove.<br>> Regards Paal W<br>><br>> -----Opprinnelig melding----- From: ajheggie@gmail.com<br>> Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2013 2:26 PM<br>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Insulation and stove life<br>><br>> [Default] On Sat, 8 Jun 2013 14:10:58 -0700,Bob Tingleff<br>> <bob@tingleff.com> wrote:<br>><br>>> Belonio's TLUD design calls for an insulated gasifier reactor, with the<br>>> inner cylinder being 20 gauge stainless, though Paul O's version is not<br>>> insulated. And Rocket stoves are insulated. So I'm surprised to see the<br>>> comments below pass without any discussion. I wonder if Belonio's rice <br>>> husk<br>>> gasifier stoves have longevity problems.<br>><br>> Insulation is necessary to reduce heat loss, so we are not saying don<br>> not use insulation. What we are saying is if the insulation is added<br>> to the "cool" side of a metal surface in the stove then it can cause<br>> the metal work to get to a temperature at which it fails, normally by<br>> oxidation.<br>><br>> On our high pressure pyrolysis unit we had blocks of ceramic<br>> insulation inside a steel containment but it was necessary to allow<br>> for cooling of the outer skin because stray hot gas could get past the<br>> insulation joints to heat the steel.<br>><br>> Steel seems to survive the temperature in a TLUD quite well, but this<br>> is only a temperature of around 600C. If the TLUD pyrolysis front<br>> reaches the primary air inlet and the char starts burning in updraught<br>> mode the temperature rapidly reaches over 1100C and steel fails<br>> quickly.<br>><br>> AJH<br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Stoves mailing list<br>><br>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>><br>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>><br>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>> -----<br>> No virus found in this message.<br>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<br>> Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3199/6394 - Release Date: 06/08/13<br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Stoves mailing list<br>><br>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>><br>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br>><br>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br>><br><br><br><br><br>-----<br>No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<br>Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3199/6396 - Release Date: 06/09/13<br><br></div></body></html>