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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Dear Paul</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Very interesting!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Sawdust has an "R-Factor" of about 2 BTU-hr/ft^2-
degF-inch. Would you recall the R-Factor for Rice Hulls?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Best wishes,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Kevin</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=paul.olivier@esrla.com href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com">Paul
Olivier</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 13, 2013 11:22
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] Meat grinder fuels
for TLUDs was Re: wheat husk pellets</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV>
<DIV>Tom,<BR><BR></DIV>Ten years ago I had worked a Carl Simpson of Riceland
in Arkansas on the idea of using rice hulls as insulation. We found out that
untreated rice hulls make an excellent insulation, and unlike cellulose
insulation, chemicals do not have to be added to rice hulls to make them fire
and fungi resistant. Untreated rice hulls passed all ASTM tests for
insulation materials. Carl told me of piles of rice hulls that had been in
place outdoors for over 20 years. Rice hulls do not decompose very easily. I
do not know much about wheat hulls.<BR><BR></DIV>Paul Olivier<BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 4:39 AM, Tom Miles <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com"
target=_blank>tmiles@trmiles.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV lang=EN-US vlink="purple" link="blue">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Fair
enough. Wheat byproducts that I have worked with are usually either a
granular or powdery meal. I don’t know how much hulls would break down
biologically. Proabbly not much since they are used as a bulking agent for
compost. <U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Tom<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><A name=13f3f7bbe431ef05__MailEndCompose><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></A> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Stoves
[mailto:<A href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>Legacy Mail<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 13, 2013 2:18 PM</SPAN></P>
<DIV class=im><BR><B>To:</B> Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves<BR></DIV><B>Cc:</B> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
<DIV>
<DIV class=h5><BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] Meat grinder fuels for TLUDs
was Re: wheat husk pellets<U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<P></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=h5>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Tom, Paul,<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>the problem with running a fiberbound residue through,
especially, an augur driven meat mincer type die, is that the process itself
tends to shear the very fibers that do the binding. 1" dia x 1 long sausages
are about as small as you can go from our experience
.<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Richard<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR>Sent from my iPhone<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><BR>On Jun 12, 2013, at
21:07, "Tom Miles" <<A href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com"
target=_blank>tmiles@trmiles.com</A>> wrote:<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Paul,</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">The
hulls would have to be incorporated into a meal that when dried would form
into a ball or pellet shape by using something like a meat grinder. It
might be possible to “ret” them with the coffee skins a la Bryant/Legacy.
Then you would have something to form. I have always experienced a large
quantity of fines with rice husks and straw. You could tie those up by
combining them in a meal but you need something fibrous to hold them
together. </SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Think
of other uses for composted rice husks. I know someone who has made
thousands of cubic yards of peat substitute by composting rice husks. So
it is clearly possible to biologically “process” the husks to a beneficial
form. Once you have composted the hulls why use them as fuel? They could
be better as a soil amendment. The composting should generate biological
binders that would give you a choice of densification methods. Pressing
hulls through a metal die will just wear out the die. Probably not the
first choice. I think there is a form of fuel or soil amendment that could
be created. Meanwhile keep the day job and perfect your rice husk TLUD
</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Tom
</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Stoves [<A
href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Paul Olivier<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 12, 2013 7:38
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Stoves] Meat grinder fuels for TLUDs was Re: wheat husk
pellets</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Tom's explanation still leaves me with a few
questions.<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Would the rice hull have to be ground into a powder to
go through a meat grinder?<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>It takes a lot of energy and maintenance to grind up
rice hulls.<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>With a conventional pellet machine, rice hulls do not
have to be ground up.<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>What binder would be used with rice
hulls?<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Paul<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Paul Anderson <<A
href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target=_blank>psanders@ilstu.edu</A>>
wrote:<U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Stovers,<BR><BR>Tom gave a good explanation. His
message is now in the Listserv Archives. But how can such content
be made more available for future readers?<U></U><U></U></P>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR>Paul S.
Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"<BR>Email: <A
href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target=_blank>psanders@ilstu.edu</A>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072<BR>Website: <A
href="http://www.drtlud.com"
target=_blank>www.drtlud.com</A><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On 6/12/2013 4:24 AM, Tom Miles
wrote:<U></U><U></U></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal>Andrew,<BR><BR>Good
explanation.<BR><BR>Think of two methods of forming fuels. One requires
high heat and pressure.<BR>The other requires water and biological or
chemical degradation.<BR><BR>Heat, pressure and some moisture (10% MC) are
required for densification to<BR>pellets, briquettes or fire logs. A dry
biomass is finely ground and pressed<BR>through a metal die. There are two
principal binding mechanisms. In one,<BR>cellulose fibers pressed together
with heat removes excess water and the<BR>fibers are bonded to each other
through what is called paper bonding, or<BR>hydrogen bonding. It is like
wetting two pieces of paper and letting them<BR>dry out. They are
difficult to pull apart. This is a chemical bond that is a<BR>major
bonding mechanism for most densification. When you break the pellet
or<BR>briquette it falls apart rather than snaps.<BR> A second
mechanism is lignin plastic flow, as Andrew describes below. The<BR>lignin
and part of the celluloses actually plasticize and flow. Under
high<BR>power magnification with a scanning electron microscope a portion
of the<BR>wood looks like solid plastic with no identifiable fibers. These
pellets<BR>snap when you break them.<BR><BR>Both mechanisms are at play in
a densifier. Together these mechanisms make a<BR>durable pellet or
briquette. As Andrew points out they require power and
an<BR>extrusion process like a pellet mill.<BR><BR>A third mechanism that
is used with mechanical densifiers is adding chemical<BR>binders,
starches, or even expanding clays. These were employed in the<BR>older,
low power cubers and briquetters to make animal feed. Molasses
based<BR>binders were added to help stick hay together in cubes and to add
nitrogen<BR>(protein) etc. They often added 30% to the cost of the feed.
We used sodium<BR>hydroxide to hydrolyze straw to make it pliable for
making cubes. It had the<BR>advantage of making the straw more digestable
for the animals. This was fine<BR>for using low quality feeds like straw
in times of feed shortage but too<BR>expensive when feed prices
fell.<BR><BR>Wet methods of forming fuels are like the method described by
Richard<BR>Stanley. Using water, chemicals, or biological degradation the
biomass is<BR>softened and the surface become sticky. You make a pulp,
meal, or dough. You<BR>can then use a press, like a piston press (a la
Bryant), a meat grinder, a<BR>roller mill, or a cement mixer (Davis) to
form the fuel into balls or<BR>bricks. Then you dry it out. The sticking
mechanisms include the paper<BR>bonding, as described above, and adhesion
by any number of sugars, starches,<BR>etc. that are activated or released
by the process. The dried fuel is not as<BR>dense as a pellet or briquette
but it is uniform, it stays together, and It<BR>burns very well because
for the form of the fuel.<BR><BR>When we worked with Ben Bryant in the
1970s and 1980s we tried a number of<BR>simple wet pulping processes to
make building products for both developed<BR>and developing countries and
fibers for erosion control. Some of his<BR>products from this period are
still made commercially. In the 1990s Ben<BR>introduced me to Richard and
how he was applying some of the same wet<BR>forming principles to make
bricks for fuel (and for growing seedlings). The<BR>lesson is to learn and
understand how natural fibers and fiber chemistry can<BR>be used to an
advantage. Sometimes a small percentage of long wet fibers can<BR>be used
to bind together dry fine particles.<BR><BR>Torrefaction. Think of
torrefaction as roasting biomass fuel in the absence<BR>of air.
Biomass is heated first to dry it, then in the absence of air
to<BR>280C. At this temperature it is completely dry and some of the
cellulose has<BR>converted to gas. You lose about 30% of the weight and
10% of the heating<BR>value. The fuel is in the same form that you started
with but it is dry and<BR>brittle. If you have a densifier then it takes
less energy to pelletize it.<BR>The pellets store well because they resist
moisture. Torrefaction is used<BR>primarily for preparing wood fuel for
burning with coal in very large<BR>utility boilers. There are several
torrefaction projects in Europe and a few<BR>in North America. A plant in
Mississippi has shipped a couple of large barge<BR>loads of torrefied wood
to customers in Europe.<BR><BR>There was a project in Rwanda some years
ago that used partial torrefaction<BR>to prepare fuel bricks for domestic
use. A professor from the US designed a<BR>small torrefier and
installed it in a refuse fuel operation run by a women's<BR>coop. The
torrefied biomass was formed into a brick using a fire log maker<BR>like
the Shimada machine. A USAID employee we contacted knew of the
project<BR>but did not know if it was still in operation. I haven't heard
of any<BR>similar projects at the small scale.<BR><BR>I hope that this
long-winded explanation helps make these processes
clear.<BR><BR>Tom<BR><BR> <BR><BR><BR>-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: Stoves [mailto:<A
href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>] On Behalf
Of<BR><A href="mailto:ajheggie@gmail.com"
target=_blank>ajheggie@gmail.com</A><BR>Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013
1:01 AM<BR>To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<BR>Subject: Re:
[Stoves] Meat grinder fuels for TLUDs was Re: wheat
husk<BR>pellets<BR><BR>[Default] On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 12:53:02 +0700,Paul
Olivier<BR><<A href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com"
target=_blank>paul.olivier@esrla.com</A>> wrote:<U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>How does lignin soften to become a binding agent using
a meat grinder?<BR>This would be truly wonderful, if it were
true.<U></U><U></U></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal>It won't with a meat
grinder, you will need some sort of binder, like<BR>boiled starch or
clay.<BR><BR>Lignin plastisises under high pressure and heat, the heat is
normally<BR>derived from the friction of the material passing through the
die. At<BR>these pressures the cell walls collapse and then the lignin re
sets to<BR>form a pellet that is denser than the wood it was made from.
All these<BR>systems use a lot of power and the expensive dies
wear.<BR><BR>The Shimada press is the one that produces a hexagonal log
with a hole<BR>down the middle, often blackened on the outside from the
heat from the<BR>press walls.<BR><BR>Similarly rotary die extruders
use pinch rollers to punch small<BR>amounts of feed through the
holes.<BR><BR><BR>Have a look at:<BR><BR><A
href="http://www.fao.org/docrep/x5738e/x5738e0j.htm"
target=_blank>http://www.fao.org/docrep/x5738e/x5738e0j.htm</A><BR><BR><BR>AJH<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Stoves
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<P class=MsoNormal><BR><BR clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Paul A. Olivier
PhD<BR>26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong<BR>Dalat<BR>Vietnam<BR><BR>Louisiana
telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)<BR>Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in
Vietnam)<BR>Skype address: Xpolivier<BR><A href="http://www.esrla.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.esrla.com/</A>
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Vuong<BR>Dalat<BR>Vietnam<BR><BR>Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings
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