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<DIV>Michael,</DIV>
<DIV>I am so pleased to meet an ex copra maker and one who knows the coconut so
well!! So I presume you know very well the native “tuba” drink from
the flower shoot? Do take a look at my photo album below :</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><A
href="https://plus.google.com/photos/113101643783889350444/albums/5889511496280160113/5889528293743607618?pid=5889528293743607618&oid=113101643783889350444"><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
color=#0000ff>https://plus.google.com/photos/113101643783889350444/albums/5889511496280160113/5889528293743607618?pid=5889528293743607618&oid=113101643783889350444</FONT></A></P>
<DIV>– you will see the coconut husk (bucong) strung together; your
preferred frond mid ribs (palwa) and the charcoal from coconut shells (inside
sacks and plastic bags). The charcoal makers are my biggest competitors
for the bucong I need to fire my eco-kalans. Take a close look at photo
#37 -the small pottery to the right which looks like a vase uses “oling” or
coconut shell charcoal; to the left you will find the big traditional
kalans which can use firewood, “palwa” or “bucong”. The “bucong” is
the fuel of the poorest and the “bingka” or rice cake bakers; the “palwa”
is bought by the not so poor; firewood by the middleclass; and the
“oling “ is bought by the many food vendors (like “tocinos” – similar to sate in
Malaysia or Indonesia, steamed meat buns, boiling water for disinfecting spoons
& forks....) and households for broiling fish and meats (sinugba).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Oling is made by burning coconut shellls in a hole in the ground –a smoky
process with a lot of energy going to waste. Do you know a better
way??</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Rebecca </DIV>
<DIV>
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style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: inline"></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=mtrevor@ntamar.net
href="mailto:mtrevor@ntamar.net">mtrevor</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, June 14, 2013 12:31 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> [Stoves] coconut usage in improved stoves</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: inline">
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Dear <FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman">Rebecca
</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>As an ex copra maker I have met the coconut and
know it well.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I have made copra by the tons. <FONT size=2
face=Arial>I know coconut husk and flower shoot and fronds and shell </FONT>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Here the husks are generally burned in 3/4/5 wedge
sized pieces. After the nuts are husked
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>women haul them in from the husking areas and sun
dry them in the yards. It is exhausting back breaking work</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Husk is a pretty good mosquito chaser and its low
burn temperature make it very good for cooking rice.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>BUT THE SMOKE!!!!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I would like to see a retort system running heat to
a copra drier to produce better copra with out bugs and mold</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>with </FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial>coconut shell
charcoal for sale as a by product.
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>In more recent years the has been some switch to
your "bucong" of course this mean no more shell left over.
</FONT> </DIV></FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Splitting husk with shell in
to multiple little wedges would </FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial>be considered a
lot of additional work. Coconut husk it tough stuff. </FONT><FONT size=2
face=Arial>I find slicing off the leaflets in the field and </FONT><FONT size=2
face=Arial>using the coconut frond mid rib chopped into segments and split
length wise </FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial>easier. The resulting stick like
</FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial>pieces feed into a rocket stove easier. The
f</FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial>lower spaths are superb rocket stove
fuel.</FONT></DIV></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Michael</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Marshall Islands</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ravermeer@telus.net href="mailto:ravermeer@telus.net">Rebecca A.
Vermeer</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> ; <A title=mtrevor@ntamar.net
href="mailto:mtrevor@ntamar.net">Michael N. Trevor</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=ravermeer@telus.net
href="mailto:ravermeer@telus.net">Rebecca A. Vermeer</A> ; <A
title=jonnygms@gmail.com href="mailto:jonnygms@gmail.com">Jon Anderson</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, June 15, 2013 6:30
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] : Re: Insulation
and stove life</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV>Hello Michael,</DIV>
<DIV>Thank you for your suggestions and question. My comments are as
follows:</DIV>
<DIV>1. I have considered experimenting with high silicate ash from the
foot of Mt. Canlaon, in northern part of Negros Oriental. The ash
is free and my partners with the 11th IB of the Philippine Army in Negros Or.
and the Memorial Elementary School in Canlaon would bring the ash to Dumaguete
City. If this does not work, I’ll follow up on the TLUD route.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>2. Jon & Flip Anderson (Aprovecho volunteers) have shown me
their work with insulating bricks to form the combustion chamber in Timor
Leste. The insulating bricks are weak, fragile bricks which require a
strong, heavy duty shell exterior (e.g. cement)to protect the combustion
chamber and to support big cooking pots. I still think that tiny
insulating “clay marbles” between the heavy duty, all clay, fired kalan and
combustion chamber is the most practical way to pursue. I am hopeful
Rolf and ECOWORXX can find a way to produce these insulating clay marbles or
pebbles cheaply.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>3. For those who have not seen a coconut husk – it is a by-product of
COPRA (mature coconut meat) production. Every 3 months, the coconuts are
harvested, cut into 2 halves, and meat is extracted and dried to make
copra. The husk and inside shell is dried in roof-covered sheds or
storage buildings to make “bucong” – the fuel we use to fire the eco-kalans
to 900 degrees Celsius. To use the “bucong” or coconut husk with
shell for fuel in a rocket stove, it is requires chopping the husk with a
machete into narrow wedges (like a cantaloupe) and a combustion chamber
opening as wide and as high (5.5”x5.5”) as that of the eco-kalan.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: inline">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV><FONT size=3 face=Calibri>Rebecca Vermeer</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3 face=Calibri>Eco-Kalan Project in the
Philippines</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3 face=Calibri>British Columbia, Canada</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3 face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=mtrevor@ntamar.net
href="mailto:mtrevor@ntamar.net">mtrevor</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, June 14, 2013 1:44 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] : Re: Insulation and stove
life</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: inline">
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Rebecca </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Why not gassify rice hulls in a TLUD and then use
the low cristobalite "tough" high silicate ash to mix your insulation.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Perhaps take a lead fom Aprovecho's play book and
fire your liner in multiple wedge shaped pieces negating the need to
break</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>things up. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>How do to "prepare" your coconut husks for use in a rocket stove? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Michael N Trevor</DIV>
<DIV>Marshall Islands</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ravermeer@telus.net href="mailto:ravermeer@telus.net">Rebecca A.
Vermeer</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=paul.olivier@esrla.com
href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com">Paul Olivier</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=jonnygms@gmail.com
href="mailto:jonnygms@gmail.com">Jon Anderson</A> ; <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, June 14, 2013 8:25
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] : Re: Insulation
and stove life</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV>Paul,</DIV>
<DIV>I currently use wood ash as insulating material between the kalan
and combustion chamber of the eco-kalan (a rocket stove using wood,
charcoal, coconut husk, shell, fronds and other parts of the coconut
tree). The eco-kalan uses 75-85% less firewood and therefore a lot
less ash is produced compared to traditional kalans and other traditional
cookstoves in Negros Oriental, Philippines. A shortage in supply
of ash is one fact
<DIV> </DIV>or which affects sales of
eco-kalan. I have considered making an insulating
material using a 50-50 mix by volume of rice hull & clay in
the form of pellets or bricks which would be broken to pieces after
firing. I would fire the pellets or the bricks along with the
eco-kalans up to 900 degrees Celsius. Will there be significant
formation of cristobalite under these conditions? Would handling the
fired pellets or the breaking of the bricks be a health hazard?
Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Rebecca Vermeer</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: inline">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=paul.olivier@esrla.com
href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com">Paul Olivier</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, June 14, 2013 12:07 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=ravermeer@telus.net
href="mailto:ravermeer@telus.net">Rebecca A. Vermeer</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=jonnygms@gmail.com
href="mailto:jonnygms@gmail.com">Jon Anderson</A> ; <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>
; <A title=larryw@gotsky.com href="mailto:larryw@gotsky.com">larry
winiarski</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: Fw: [Stoves] : Re: Insulation and stove
life</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: inline">
<P>Rebecca,</P>
<P>If we directly burn river hulls, there should be a lot of cristobalite
formed. If we gasify, this problem should be minimized, provided channeling
does not occur. Also there might be cristobalite in the particulate matter
in the combustion gases. With rice hull pellets in a TLUD we have a
lot less channeling, and a lot less particulate matter. Therefore the rice
hull pellet becomes an attractive fuel for these and many other reasons.</P>
<P>Thanks.<BR>Paul Olivier</P>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Jun 14, 2013 1:44 PM, "Rebecca A. Vermeer" <<A
href="mailto:ravermeer@telus.net">ravermeer@telus.net</A>> wrote:<BR
type="attribution">
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'">
<DIV>Hello Paul,</DIV>
<DIV>Larry just told me that the silica content of rice hull ash is over
90%. At the ETHOS 2013 Conference, I saw a TURBO stove developed in
the Philippines which used rice hull for fuel. Given your comment
below regarding cristobalite “which is a nasty carcinogen” and severely
hazardous to human health (see link below), would you recommend the use
of rice hull as a household fuel for cookstoves? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Rebecca Vermeer</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>CRISTOBALITE LINK:</DIV>
<DIV><A title=http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1657.pdf
href="http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1657.pdf"
target=_blank>http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1657.pdf</A></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: inline"><B></B></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: inline"><B></B> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: inline"><B>From:</B>
<A title=paul.olivier@esrla.com href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com"
target=_blank>Paul Olivier</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 12, 2013 12:01 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target=_blank>Discussion of
biomass cooking stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] : Re: Insulation and stove
life</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: inline">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Paal,<BR><BR></DIV>One thing I look for on my burner is that all
burner holes support a flame throughout the process. If channeling occurs
during the process or if char is being burned as the process comes to a
close, then one can see burner holes that do not support a flame. This
means that CO2 is being discharged from the burner holes, and of course
CO2 does not burn. When CO2 is formed, this represents a big inefficiency,
since combustion takes place far below the pot. When this happens the
sides of the reactor can easily turn red hot and melt. I do not know how
it is possible to spot the presence of CO2 if the top of the reactor stays
open and does not have a lid with burner holes.<BR><BR></DIV>If one turns
up the fan a bit too high resulting in channeling, it can happen that only
a few holes (among a total of 80 in my case) do not support a flame. If I
turn the fan down a bit and shake the reactor, this problem is immediately
corrected. Also the effect of the presence of CO2 can be spotted by the
cook in another way. The distribution of heat to the pan is not
even.<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Also many of the positive characteristics of biochar are lost when
biochar is combusted and is reduced to ash. The combustion of biomass and
biochar takes place when channeling occurs, and the combustion of biochar
takes place if the fan is not turned off at the end of the process. Rice
hull ash and rice hill biochar are not at all the same thing when it comes
to growing plants. <FONT color=#ff0000>Also rice hull ash can easily
contain cristobalite, which is a nasty carcinogen. Under ordinary
conditions, no farmer should be handling this stuff.<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#00ff00></FONT> </DIV>Thanks.<BR></DIV>Paul<BR>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Paal Wendelbo
<SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:paaw@online.no"
target=_blank>paaw@online.no</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'">
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Ron</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">By end of flame the color of
the char is red to yellow, that indicate a temperature of 700 to 800 ˚C
and when there is no smoke, complete combustion has taken place. Is that
not good for biochar?</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Regards Paal
W</FONT></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Stoves
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