<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
      http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Michael and Rebecca,<br>
      <br>
      The suggestion by Otto and myself about using TLUD technology is
      NOT referring to the cooking stoves specifically, but refers to
      the <br>
      <blockquote type="cite"><font size="2" face="Arial">the use of
          primative</font>
        <div><font size="2" face="Arial">pit kilns and their pollution.</font></div>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      In the pit kilns, they are already wasting the heat.   A simple
      TLUD could also waste the heat, AND avoid the pollution.<br>
      <br>
      There is every reason for Rebecca to make a simple TLUD just to
      see that the char can be made for cooking in charcoal stoves.   <br>
      <br>
      THEN, people could start to consider TLUD stoves, especially the
      TChar designs that couple with the charcoal stoves.<br>
      <br>
      ALSO, when char is easily and cleanly made, the prospect of using
      some of that char to improve poor soils could become of interest.<br>
      <br>
      Paul<br>
      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD  aka "Dr TLUD"
Email:  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>   Skype: paultlud  Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
      On 6/16/2013 5:52 AM, mtrevor wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:9A6A6C4EDC87450FAE32964F48760F1A@HP29397140882"
      type="cite">
      <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
        http-equiv="Content-Type">
      <style>.hmmessage P {
        PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px
}
BODY.hmmessage {
        FONT-FAMILY: Calibri; FONT-SIZE: 12pt
}
</style>
      <meta name="GENERATOR" content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.23501">
      <div><font size="2" face="Arial">Rebecca has primarily worked with
          fired clay rocket stoves.</font></div>
      <div><font size="2" face="Arial">We were discussing the use of
          various parts of the cocnut as alternative fuels</font></div>
      <div><font size="2" face="Arial">In the Philipines they have a
          fairly well developen market for various cocnut products as
          fuel</font></div>
      <div><font size="2" face="Arial">In particulat they have wide
          spread fired clay charcoal burners. She had commented on the
          use of primative</font></div>
      <div><font size="2" face="Arial">pit kilns and their pollution/ I
          pointed her toward Amy Smiths work hopefully to reduce some
          polluion</font></div>
      <div> </div>
      <div><font size="2" face="Arial">Moving into retorts or TLUD unit
          may be in the future but I beleive for now she is going to be
          expanding her</font></div>
      <div><font size="2" face="Arial">rocket stove capabilities. I am
          glad to see other picking up on Rebacca's travails</font></div>
      <div> </div>
      <div><font size="2" face="Arial">I am not much into charcoal until
          I can find a effective use for its heat and smoke, maybe a
          copra dryer.</font></div>
      <div><font size="2" face="Arial">.  </font></div>
      <div> </div>
      <div><font size="2" face="Arial">Michael </font></div>
      <div><font size="2" face="Arial">Marshall Islands</font></div>
      <div> </div>
      <div> </div>
      <div> </div>
      <div>--- Original Message ----- </div>
      <blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT:
        5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
        dir="ltr">
        <div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color:
          black"><b>From:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            title="terra-matricula@hotmail.com"
            href="mailto:terra-matricula@hotmail.com">Otto Formo</a> </div>
        <div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a
            moz-do-not-send="true"
            title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
            href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Stoves
            Bioenergylist</a> </div>
        <div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Cc:</b> <a
            moz-do-not-send="true" title="jonnygms@gmail.com"
            href="mailto:jonnygms@gmail.com">Jon Anderson</a> </div>
        <div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, June 16, 2013
          10:13 PM</div>
        <div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves]
          coconut usage in improved stoves</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="ltr">Rebecca,<br>
          Haveing tested briquettes made out of rice husks and sawdust
          in a gasifier unit (Natural Draft), we experienced the same
          challenge to ignite and creating the pyrolytic front.<br>
           <br>
          I would suggest you create an upper layer of woodchips, on top
          of your coconutshells, to create that pyrolytic front more
          easily and ignite the chips, using woodshaveings or even gras,
          as a starter. <br>
           <br>
          REMEMBER: <br>
          Do not pour liquid materials, like kerosine , directly into
          the fueling Chamber!<br>
          This will distrub the pyrolytic process and reduce the outcome
          of your  charcoal or biochar production.<br>
           <br>
          Good Luck.<br>
           <br>
          Thanks<br>
           <br>
          Otto<br>
          <div>
            <hr id="stopSpelling"> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 23:03:35 -0500<br>
            From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><br>
            To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
            CC: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jonnygms@gmail.com">jonnygms@gmail.com</a><br>
            Subject: Re: [Stoves] coconut usage in improved stoves<br>
            <br>
            <div class="ecxmoz-cite-prefix">Rebecca,<br>
              <br>
              To make your oling (coconut shell charcoal), the TLUD
              technology is highly appropriate.   The density of the
              shell pieces makes them slightly difficult to initially
              light (the same as with densified wood pellets).   But
              just make a slightly larger and longer burning "starter
              fire" to get the initial layer of pyrolyzing biomass that
              becomes the pyrolytic front that migrates slowly down
              through the column of shell pieces.<br>
              <br>
              How familiar are you with the TLUD technology?<br>
              <br>
              Paul<br>
              <pre class="ecxmoz-signature">Paul S. Anderson, PhD  aka "Dr TLUD"
Email:  <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>   Skype: paultlud  Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
              On 6/15/2013 12:48 AM, Rebecca A. Vermeer wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote
              cite="mid:B62FC8A13BAA430E939760624F62E439@RebeccaHP">
              <style><!--
--></style>
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0);
                  FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
                  <div>Michael,</div>
                  <div>I am so pleased to meet an ex copra maker and one
                    who knows the coconut so well!!   So I presume you
                    know very well the native “tuba” drink from the
                    flower shoot?  Do take a look at my photo album
                    below :</div>
                  <div> </div>
                  <p style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt"
                    class="ecxMsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://plus.google.com/photos/113101643783889350444/albums/5889511496280160113/5889528293743607618?pid=5889528293743607618&oid=113101643783889350444"
                      target="_blank"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
                        color="#0000ff">https://plus.google.com/photos/113101643783889350444/albums/5889511496280160113/5889528293743607618?pid=5889528293743607618&oid=113101643783889350444</font></a></p>
                  <div>– you will see the coconut husk (bucong) strung
                    together;  your preferred frond mid ribs (palwa) and
                    the charcoal from coconut shells (inside sacks and
                    plastic bags).  The charcoal makers are my biggest
                    competitors for the bucong I need to fire my
                    eco-kalans.  Take a close look at photo #37 -the
                    small pottery to the right which looks like a vase
                    uses “oling” or coconut shell charcoal;  to the left
                    you will find the big traditional kalans which can
                    use firewood,  “palwa” or “bucong”.  The “bucong” is
                    the fuel of the poorest and the “bingka” or rice
                    cake bakers;  the “palwa” is bought by the not so
                    poor;  firewood by the middleclass;  and the “oling
                    “ is bought by the many food vendors (like “tocinos”
                    – similar to sate in Malaysia or Indonesia, steamed
                    meat buns, boiling water for disinfecting spoons
                    & forks....) and households for broiling fish
                    and meats (sinugba).</div>
                  <div> </div>
                  <div>Oling is made by burning coconut shellls in a
                    hole in the ground –a smoky process with a lot of
                    energy going to waste.  Do you know a better way??</div>
                  <div> </div>
                  <div>Rebecca </div>
                  <div>
                    <div style="FONT: 10pt tahoma; font-size-adjust:
                      none; font-stretch: normal">
                      <div style="BACKGROUND: rgb(245,245,245)">
                        <div><b>From:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            title="mtrevor@ntamar.net"
                            href="mailto:mtrevor@ntamar.net">mtrevor</a>
                        </div>
                        <div><b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 14, 2013 12:31 PM</div>
                        <div><b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
                            href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion
                            of biomass cooking stoves</a> </div>
                        <div><b>Subject:</b> [Stoves] coconut usage in
                          improved stoves</div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div> </div>
                  </div>
                  <div style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline;
                    FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0);
                    FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal;
                    TEXT-DECORATION: none">
                    <div><font size="2" face="Arial">Dear <font
                          size="3" face="Times New Roman">Rebecca </font></font></div>
                    <div><font size="2" face="Arial">As an ex copra
                        maker I have met the coconut and know it well.</font></div>
                    <div>
                      <div><font size="2" face="Arial">I have made copra
                          by the tons. <font size="2" face="Arial">I
                            know coconut husk and flower shoot and
                            fronds and shell </font>
                          <div><font size="2" face="Arial">Here the
                              husks are generally burned in 3/4/5 wedge
                              sized pieces. After the nuts are husked
                              <div><font size="2" face="Arial">women
                                  haul them in from the husking areas
                                  and sun dry them in the yards. It is
                                  exhausting back breaking work</font></div>
                              <div><font size="2" face="Arial">Husk is a
                                  pretty good mosquito chaser and its
                                  low burn temperature make it very good
                                  for cooking rice.</font></div>
                              <div>BUT THE SMOKE!!!!</div>
                              <div> </div>
                              <div><font size="2" face="Arial">I would
                                  like to see a retort system running
                                  heat to a copra drier to produce
                                  better copra with out bugs and mold</font></div>
                              <div><font size="2" face="Arial">with </font><font
                                  size="2" face="Arial">coconut shell
                                  charcoal for sale as a by product.
                                  <div><font size="2" face="Arial">In
                                      more recent years the has been
                                      some switch to your "bucong" of
                                      course this mean no more shell
                                      left over.  </font> </div>
                                </font><font size="2" face="Arial">Splitting
                                  husk with shell in to multiple little
                                  wedges would </font><font size="2"
                                  face="Arial">be considered a lot of
                                  additional work. Coconut husk it tough
                                  stuff. </font><font size="2"
                                  face="Arial">I find slicing off the
                                  leaflets in the field and </font><font
                                  size="2" face="Arial">using the
                                  coconut frond mid rib chopped into
                                  segments and split length wise </font><font
                                  size="2" face="Arial">easier. The
                                  resulting stick like </font><font
                                  size="2" face="Arial">pieces feed into
                                  a rocket stove easier. The f</font><font
                                  size="2" face="Arial">lower spaths are
                                  superb rocket stove fuel.</font></div>
                            </font> </div>
                          <div> </div>
                        </font></div>
                      <div><font size="2" face="Arial">Michael</font></div>
                      <div><font size="2" face="Arial">Marshall Islands</font></div>
                      <div> </div>
                      <div>----- Original Message ----- </div>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px
                      solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px;
                      MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir="ltr">
                      <div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND:
                        rgb(228,228,228); font-size-adjust: none;
                        font-stretch: normal"><b>From:</b> <a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          title="ravermeer@telus.net"
                          href="mailto:ravermeer@telus.net">Rebecca A.
                          Vermeer</a> </div>
                      <div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust:
                        none; font-stretch: normal"><b>To:</b> ; <a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          title="mtrevor@ntamar.net"
                          href="mailto:mtrevor@ntamar.net">Michael N.
                          Trevor</a> </div>
                      <div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust:
                        none; font-stretch: normal"><b>Cc:</b> <a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          title="ravermeer@telus.net"
                          href="mailto:ravermeer@telus.net">Rebecca A.
                          Vermeer</a> ; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          title="jonnygms@gmail.com"
                          href="mailto:jonnygms@gmail.com">Jon Anderson</a>
                      </div>
                      <div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust:
                        none; font-stretch: normal"><b>Sent:</b>
                        Saturday, June 15, 2013 6:30 AM</div>
                      <div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust:
                        none; font-stretch: normal"><b>Subject:</b> Re:
                        [Stoves] : Re: Insulation and stove life</div>
                      <div> </div>
                      <div dir="ltr">
                        <div style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR:
                          rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
                          <div>Hello Michael,</div>
                          <div>Thank you for your suggestions and
                            question.  My comments are as follows:</div>
                          <div>1.  I have considered experimenting with
                            high silicate ash from the foot of Mt.
                            Canlaon, in northern part of Negros
                            Oriental.   The ash is free and my partners
                            with the 11th IB of the Philippine Army in
                            Negros Or. and the Memorial Elementary
                            School in Canlaon would bring the ash to
                            Dumaguete City.  If this does not work, I’ll
                            follow up on the TLUD route.</div>
                          <div> </div>
                          <div>2.  Jon & Flip Anderson (Aprovecho
                            volunteers) have shown me their work with
                            insulating bricks to form the combustion
                            chamber in Timor Leste.  The insulating
                            bricks are weak, fragile bricks which
                            require a strong, heavy duty shell exterior
                            (e.g. cement)to protect the combustion
                            chamber and to support big cooking pots.  I
                            still think that tiny insulating “clay
                            marbles” between the heavy duty, all clay,
                            fired kalan and combustion chamber is the
                            most practical way to pursue.  I am hopeful
                            Rolf and ECOWORXX can find a way to produce
                            these insulating clay marbles or pebbles
                            cheaply.</div>
                          <div> </div>
                          <div>3. For those who have not seen a coconut
                            husk – it is a by-product of COPRA (mature
                            coconut meat) production.  Every 3 months,
                            the coconuts are harvested, cut into 2
                            halves, and meat is extracted and dried to
                            make copra.   The husk and inside shell is
                            dried in roof-covered sheds or storage
                            buildings to make “bucong” – the fuel we use
                            to fire the eco-kalans to  900 degrees
                            Celsius.  To use the “bucong” or coconut
                            husk with shell for fuel in a rocket stove,
                            it is requires chopping the husk with a
                            machete into narrow wedges (like a
                            cantaloupe) and a combustion chamber
                            opening  as wide and as high (5.5”x5.5”) as
                            that of the eco-kalan.</div>
                          <div> </div>
                          <div style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY:
                            inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR:
                            rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT:
                            normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
                            <div style="FONT: 10pt tahoma;
                              font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch:
                              normal">
                              <div><font size="3" face="Calibri">Rebecca
                                  Vermeer</font></div>
                              <div><font size="3" face="Calibri">Eco-Kalan
                                  Project in the Philippines</font></div>
                              <div><font size="3" face="Calibri">British
                                  Columbia, Canada</font></div>
                              <div> </div>
                              <div style="BACKGROUND: rgb(245,245,245)">
                                <div><b>From:</b> <a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    title="mtrevor@ntamar.net"
                                    href="mailto:mtrevor@ntamar.net">mtrevor</a>
                                </div>
                                <div><b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 14, 2013
                                  1:44 AM</div>
                                <div><b>To:</b> <a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass
                                    cooking stoves</a> </div>
                                <div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] : Re:
                                  Insulation and stove life</div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <div> </div>
                          </div>
                          <div style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY:
                            inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR:
                            rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT:
                            normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
                            <div><font size="2" face="Arial">Rebecca </font></div>
                            <div><font size="2" face="Arial">Why not
                                gassify rice hulls in a TLUD and then
                                use the low cristobalite "tough" high
                                silicate ash to mix your insulation. </font></div>
                            <div><font size="2" face="Arial">Perhaps
                                take a lead fom Aprovecho's play book
                                and fire your liner in multiple wedge
                                shaped pieces negating the need to break</font></div>
                            <div><font size="2" face="Arial">things up.
                              </font></div>
                            <div> </div>
                            <div>How do to "prepare" your coconut husks
                              for use in a rocket stove? </div>
                            <div> </div>
                            <div>Michael N Trevor</div>
                            <div>Marshall Islands</div>
                            <blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0)
                              2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px;
                              PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
                              MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir="ltr">
                              <div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND:
                                rgb(228,228,228); font-size-adjust:
                                none; font-stretch: normal"><b>From:</b>
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  title="ravermeer@telus.net"
                                  href="mailto:ravermeer@telus.net">Rebecca
                                  A. Vermeer</a> </div>
                              <div style="FONT: 10pt arial;
                                font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch:
                                normal"><b>To:</b> <a
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  title="paul.olivier@esrla.com"
                                  href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com">Paul
                                  Olivier</a> </div>
                              <div style="FONT: 10pt arial;
                                font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch:
                                normal"><b>Cc:</b> <a
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  title="jonnygms@gmail.com"
                                  href="mailto:jonnygms@gmail.com">Jon
                                  Anderson</a> ; <a
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
                              </div>
                              <div style="FONT: 10pt arial;
                                font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch:
                                normal"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 14,
                                2013 8:25 PM</div>
                              <div style="FONT: 10pt arial;
                                font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch:
                                normal"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] :
                                Re: Insulation and stove life</div>
                              <div> </div>
                              <div dir="ltr">
                                <div style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri';
                                  COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
                                  <div>Paul,</div>
                                  <div>I currently use wood ash as 
                                    insulating material between the
                                    kalan and combustion chamber of the
                                    eco-kalan (a rocket stove using
                                    wood, charcoal, coconut husk, shell,
                                    fronds and other parts of the
                                    coconut tree).  The eco-kalan uses
                                    75-85% less firewood and therefore a
                                    lot less ash is produced compared to
                                    traditional kalans and other
                                    traditional cookstoves in Negros
                                    Oriental, Philippines.   A shortage
                                    in supply of ash is one fact
                                    <div> </div>
                                    or which affects  sales of
                                    eco-kalan.    I  have considered
                                    making an insulating material  using
                                    a  50-50 mix by volume of rice hull
                                    & clay in the form of pellets or
                                    bricks which would be broken to
                                    pieces after firing.  I would fire
                                    the pellets or the bricks along with
                                    the eco-kalans up to 900 degrees
                                    Celsius.  Will there be significant
                                    formation of cristobalite under
                                    these conditions?  Would handling
                                    the fired pellets or the breaking of
                                    the bricks be a health hazard? 
                                    Thanks,</div>
                                  <div> </div>
                                  <div>Rebecca Vermeer</div>
                                  <div style="FONT-STYLE: normal;
                                    DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY:
                                    'Calibri'; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0);
                                    FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT:
                                    normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
                                    <div style="FONT: 10pt tahoma;
                                      font-size-adjust: none;
                                      font-stretch: normal">
                                      <div> </div>
                                      <div style="BACKGROUND:
                                        rgb(245,245,245)">
                                        <div><b>From:</b> <a
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            title="paul.olivier@esrla.com"
href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com">Paul Olivier</a> </div>
                                        <div><b>Sent:</b> Friday, June
                                          14, 2013 12:07 AM</div>
                                        <div><b>To:</b> <a
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            title="ravermeer@telus.net"
href="mailto:ravermeer@telus.net">Rebecca A. Vermeer</a> </div>
                                        <div><b>Cc:</b> <a
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            title="jonnygms@gmail.com"
                                            href="mailto:jonnygms@gmail.com">Jon
                                            Anderson</a> ; <a
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
                                          ; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            title="larryw@gotsky.com"
                                            href="mailto:larryw@gotsky.com">larry
                                            winiarski</a> </div>
                                        <div><b>Subject:</b> Re: Fw:
                                          [Stoves] : Re: Insulation and
                                          stove life</div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                    <div> </div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div style="FONT-STYLE: normal;
                                    DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY:
                                    'Calibri'; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0);
                                    FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT:
                                    normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">Rebecca,<br>
                                    If we directly burn river hulls,
                                    there should be a lot of
                                    cristobalite formed. If we gasify,
                                    this problem should be minimized,
                                    provided channeling does not occur.
                                    Also there might be cristobalite in
                                    the particulate matter in the
                                    combustion gases. With rice hull
                                    pellets in a TLUD  we have a lot
                                    less channeling, and a lot less
                                    particulate matter. Therefore the
                                    rice hull pellet becomes an
                                    attractive fuel for these and many
                                    other reasons.<br>
                                    Thanks.<br>
                                    Paul Olivier<br>
                                    <div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Jun
                                      14, 2013 1:44 PM, "Rebecca A.
                                      Vermeer" <<a
                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                                        href="mailto:ravermeer@telus.net">ravermeer@telus.net</a>>
                                      wrote:<br>
                                      <blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:
                                        rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid;
                                        MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;
                                        PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
                                        class="ecxgmail_quote">
                                        <div dir="ltr">
                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                            <div style="FONT-FAMILY:
                                              'Calibri'; FONT-SIZE:
                                              12pt">
                                              <div>Hello Paul,</div>
                                              <div>Larry just told me
                                                that the silica content
                                                of rice hull ash is over
                                                90%.  At the ETHOS 2013
                                                Conference, I saw a
                                                TURBO stove developed in
                                                the Philippines which
                                                used rice hull for
                                                fuel.  Given your
                                                comment below regarding
                                                cristobalite “which is a
                                                nasty carcinogen” and
                                                severely hazardous to
                                                human health (see link
                                                below), would you
                                                recommend the use of 
                                                rice hull as a household
                                                fuel for cookstoves? </div>
                                              <div> </div>
                                              <div>Rebecca Vermeer</div>
                                              <div> </div>
                                              <div>CRISTOBALITE LINK:</div>
                                              <div><a
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
title="http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1657.pdf"
                                                  href="http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1657.pdf"
                                                  target="_blank">http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1657.pdf</a></div>
                                              <div>
                                                <div style="FONT-STYLE:
                                                  normal; DISPLAY:
                                                  inline; FONT-FAMILY:
                                                  'Calibri'; FONT-SIZE:
                                                  small; FONT-WEIGHT:
                                                  normal;
                                                  TEXT-DECORATION: none"> </div>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <div style="FONT-STYLE:
                                                  normal; DISPLAY:
                                                  inline; FONT-FAMILY:
                                                  'Calibri'; FONT-SIZE:
                                                  small; FONT-WEIGHT:
                                                  normal;
                                                  TEXT-DECORATION: none"><b>From:</b>
                                                  <a
                                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
title="paul.olivier@esrla.com" href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com"
                                                    target="_blank">Paul
                                                    Olivier</a> </div>
                                                <div style="FONT: 10pt
                                                  tahoma;
                                                  font-size-adjust:
                                                  none; font-stretch:
                                                  normal">
                                                  <div
                                                    style="BACKGROUND:
                                                    rgb(245,245,245)">
                                                    <div><b>Sent:</b>
                                                      Wednesday, June
                                                      12, 2013 12:01 AM</div>
                                                    <div><b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
                                                        href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
                                                        target="_blank">Discussion
                                                        of biomass
                                                        cooking stoves</a>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div><b>Subject:</b>
                                                      Re: [Stoves] : Re:
                                                      Insulation and
                                                      stove life</div>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                                <div> </div>
                                              </div>
                                              <div style="FONT-STYLE:
                                                normal; DISPLAY: inline;
                                                FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri';
                                                FONT-SIZE: small;
                                                FONT-WEIGHT: normal;
                                                TEXT-DECORATION: none">
                                                <div dir="ltr">
                                                  <div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <div>Paal,<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                        </div>
                                                        One thing I look
                                                        for on my burner
                                                        is that all
                                                        burner holes
                                                        support a flame
                                                        throughout the
                                                        process. If
                                                        channeling
                                                        occurs during
                                                        the process or
                                                        if char is being
                                                        burned as the
                                                        process comes to
                                                        a close, then
                                                        one can see
                                                        burner holes
                                                        that do not
                                                        support a flame.
                                                        This means that
                                                        CO2 is being
                                                        discharged from
                                                        the burner
                                                        holes, and of
                                                        course CO2 does
                                                        not burn. When
                                                        CO2 is formed,
                                                        this represents
                                                        a big
                                                        inefficiency,
                                                        since combustion
                                                        takes place far
                                                        below the pot.
                                                        When this
                                                        happens the
                                                        sides of the
                                                        reactor can
                                                        easily turn red
                                                        hot and melt. I
                                                        do not know how
                                                        it is possible
                                                        to spot the
                                                        presence of CO2
                                                        if the top of
                                                        the reactor
                                                        stays open and
                                                        does not have a
                                                        lid with burner
                                                        holes.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                      </div>
                                                      If one turns up
                                                      the fan a bit too
                                                      high resulting in
                                                      channeling, it can
                                                      happen that only a
                                                      few holes (among a
                                                      total of 80 in my
                                                      case) do not
                                                      support a flame.
                                                      If I turn the fan
                                                      down a bit and
                                                      shake the reactor,
                                                      this problem is
                                                      immediately
                                                      corrected. Also
                                                      the effect of the
                                                      presence of CO2
                                                      can be spotted by
                                                      the cook in
                                                      another way. The
                                                      distribution of
                                                      heat to the pan is
                                                      not even.<br>
                                                      <br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div>Also many of
                                                      the positive
                                                      characteristics of
                                                      biochar are lost
                                                      when biochar is
                                                      combusted and is
                                                      reduced to ash.
                                                      The combustion of
                                                      biomass and
                                                      biochar takes
                                                      place when
                                                      channeling occurs,
                                                      and the combustion
                                                      of biochar takes
                                                      place if the fan
                                                      is not turned off
                                                      at the end of the
                                                      process. Rice hull
                                                      ash and rice hill
                                                      biochar are not at
                                                      all the same thing
                                                      when it comes to
                                                      growing plants. <font
                                                        color="#ff0000">Also
                                                        rice hull ash
                                                        can easily
                                                        contain
                                                        cristobalite,
                                                        which is a nasty
                                                        carcinogen.
                                                        Under ordinary
                                                        conditions, no
                                                        farmer should be
                                                        handling this
                                                        stuff.<br>
                                                      </font></div>
                                                    <div> </div>
                                                    Thanks.<br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  Paul<br>
                                                  <div
                                                    class="ecxgmail_extra"><br>
                                                    <br>
                                                    <div
                                                      class="ecxgmail_quote">On
                                                      Wed, Jun 12, 2013
                                                      at 1:06 PM, Paal
                                                      Wendelbo <span
                                                        dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:paaw@online.no" target="_blank">paaw@online.no</a>></span>
                                                      wrote:<br>
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        style="BORDER-LEFT:
                                                        rgb(204,204,204)
                                                        1px solid;
                                                        MARGIN: 0px 0px
                                                        0px 0.8ex;
                                                        PADDING-LEFT:
                                                        1ex"
                                                        class="ecxgmail_quote">
                                                        <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="FONT-FAMILY:
                                                          'Calibri';
                                                          FONT-SIZE:
                                                          12pt">
                                                          <p
                                                          style="LINE-HEIGHT:
                                                          13pt; MARGIN:
                                                          0cm 0cm 10pt"
class="ecxMsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Ron</font></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="LINE-HEIGHT:
                                                          13pt; MARGIN:
                                                          0cm 0cm 10pt"
class="ecxMsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">By
                                                          end of flame
                                                          the color of
                                                          the char is
                                                          red to yellow,
                                                          that indicate
                                                          a temperature
                                                          of 700 to 800
                                                          ˚C and when
                                                          there is no
                                                          smoke,
                                                          complete
                                                          combustion has
                                                          taken place.
                                                          Is that not
                                                          good for
                                                          biochar?</font></span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="LINE-HEIGHT:
                                                          13pt; MARGIN:
                                                          0cm 0cm 10pt"
class="ecxMsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Regards
                                                          Paal W</font></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                        Stoves mailing
                                                        list<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        to Send a
                                                        Message to the
                                                        list, use the
                                                        email address<br>
                                                        <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        to UNSUBSCRIBE
                                                        or Change your
                                                        List Settings
                                                        use the web page<br>
                                                        <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        for more Biomass
                                                        Cooking Stoves, 
                                                        News and
                                                        Information see
                                                        our web site:<br>
                                                        <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <br>
                                                    <br clear="all">
                                                    <br>
                                                    -- <br>
                                                    Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>
                                                    26/5 Phu Dong Thien
                                                    Vuong<br>
                                                    Dalat<br>
                                                    Vietnam<br>
                                                    <br>
                                                    Louisiana telephone:
                                                    1-337-447-4124
                                                    (rings Vietnam)<br>
                                                    Mobile: 090-694-1573
                                                    (in Vietnam)<br>
                                                    Skype address:
                                                    Xpolivier<br>
                                                    <a
                                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.esrla.com/" target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a> </div>
                                                </div>
                                                <br>
                                                <hr>
                                                _______________________________________________<br>
                                                Stoves mailing list<br>
                                                <br>
                                                to Send a Message to the
                                                list, use the email
                                                address<br>
                                                <a
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
                                                <br>
                                                to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change
                                                your List Settings use
                                                the web page<br>
                                                <a
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
                                                  target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
                                                <br>
                                                for more Biomass Cooking
                                                Stoves,  News and
                                                Information see our web
                                                site:<br>
                                                <a
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
                                                <br>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </blockquote>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <br>
                              <hr>
                              _______________________________________________<br>
                              Stoves mailing list<br>
                              <br>
                              to Send a Message to the list, use the
                              email address<br>
                              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                                href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
                              <br>
                              to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List
                              Settings use the web page<br>
                              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
                                target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
                              <br>
                              for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and
                              Information see our web site:<br>
                              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext"
                                href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/"
                                target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
                              <br>
                              <br>
                              <hr>
                              <p align="left">No virus found in this
                                message.<br>
                                Checked by AVG - <a
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="http://www.avg.com"
                                  target="_blank">www.avg.com</a><br>
                                Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database:
                                3199/6406 - Release Date: 06/12/13</p>
                            </blockquote>
                            <br>
                            <hr>
                            _______________________________________________<br>
                            Stoves mailing list<br>
                            <br>
                            to Send a Message to the list, use the email
                            address<br>
                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                              href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
                            <br>
                            to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings
                            use the web page<br>
                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
                              target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
                            <br>
                            for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and
                            Information see our web site:<br>
                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext"
                              href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/"
                              target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
                            <br>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <p align="left">No virus found in this message.<br>
                        Checked by AVG - <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="http://www.avg.com" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a><br>
                        Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3199/6406
                        - Release Date: 06/12/13</p>
                    </blockquote>
                    <br>
                    <hr> _______________________________________________<br>
                    Stoves mailing list<br>
                    <br>
                    to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                      href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
                    <br>
                    to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the
                    web page<br>
                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
                      target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
                    <br>
                    for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and
                    Information see our web site:<br>
                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext"
                      href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/"
                      target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
                    <br>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <fieldset class="ecxmimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
              <br>
              <pre>_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list

to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>

to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>

for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a>

</pre>
            </blockquote>
            <br>
            <br>
            _______________________________________________ Stoves
            mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email
            address <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a> to UNSUBSCRIBE or
            Change your List Settings use the web page
            <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
            for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see
            our web site: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a></div>
        </div>
        <p> </p>
        <hr> _______________________________________________<br>
        Stoves mailing list<br>
        <br>
        to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
        <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
        <br>
        to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
        <br>
        for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our
        web site:<br>
        <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
        <br>
        <p> </p>
        <hr>
        <p color="#000000" avgcert??="" align="left">No virus found in
          this message.<br>
          Checked by AVG - <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a><br>
          Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3199/6413 - Release
          Date: 06/15/13</p>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list

to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>

to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>

for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>