<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Tom,<br>
<br>
The discussion was about coconut SHELLS. And I think that a 20 L
"bucket" size would be an impressive demonstration, and I would
use the "5G Toucan Flex" design by Hugh McLaughlin. (5G is 5
gallons is 20 L). And I ask Hugh to please point us to the best
description / photos. This is a single-walled fuel canister.<br>
<br>
Could start smaller with the "Champion" size which is similar to
the Peko Pe, all of which have about 6 inch (15 cm) diameters.
In a warm climate (away from frigid breezes), it is easiest to
start with single-wall units that should work fine. Have plenty
of chimney to get good natural draft. There is no attempt to use
the heat in these trial runs.<br>
<br>
When successful (and please report whatever results occur),
consider going larger to 12 - 15 inch (30 - 40 cm) diameter, if
there is sufficient supply of coconut shells.<br>
<br>
I have had contact with at least one commercial entity that makes
charcoal from coconut shells in south-eastern India and sells the
char to Europe (because the shell-char is considered to be of such
quality). but I do not have that contact any longer.<br>
<br>
About coconut HUSKS, I hope some people try them in TLUDs. All
of my attempts (just a few) were not worthy of replication.<br>
<br>
Paul (headed to Uganda Monday until 9 July)<br>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 6/16/2013 9:08 AM, Tom Miles Easystreet wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:F29C6A77-2A84-4101-99EF-1C3796A3C7A4@trmiles.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<div>Paul</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What would a TLUD sized for coconut husks look like? Can you
suggest dimensions and a fuel size?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Tom</div>
<div><br>
T R Miles Technical Consultants Inc.<span
class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color:
rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color:
rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469);
-webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469);
"></span>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192,
227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77,
128, 180, 0.230469); "><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com">tmiles@trmiles.com</a></span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192,
227, 0.226562); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77,
128, 180, 0.226562);">Sent from mobile. </span></div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Jun 16, 2013, at 4:21 AM, Paul Anderson <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Michael and Rebecca,<br>
<br>
The suggestion by Otto and myself about using TLUD
technology is NOT referring to the cooking stoves
specifically, but refers to the <br>
<blockquote type="cite"><font size="2" face="Arial">the use
of primative</font>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">pit kilns and their
pollution.</font></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
In the pit kilns, they are already wasting the heat. A
simple TLUD could also waste the heat, AND avoid the
pollution.<br>
<br>
There is every reason for Rebecca to make a simple TLUD just
to see that the char can be made for cooking in charcoal
stoves. <br>
<br>
THEN, people could start to consider TLUD stoves, especially
the TChar designs that couple with the charcoal stoves.<br>
<br>
ALSO, when char is easily and cleanly made, the prospect of
using some of that char to improve poor soils could become
of interest.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 6/16/2013 5:52 AM, mtrevor wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:9A6A6C4EDC87450FAE32964F48760F1A@HP29397140882"
type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<style>.hmmessage P {
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px
}
BODY.hmmessage {
FONT-FAMILY: Calibri; FONT-SIZE: 12pt
}
</style>
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.23501">
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Rebecca has primarily
worked with fired clay rocket stoves.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">We were discussing the use
of various parts of the cocnut as alternative fuels</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">In the Philipines they have
a fairly well developen market for various cocnut
products as fuel</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">In particulat they have
wide spread fired clay charcoal burners. She had
commented on the use of primative</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">pit kilns and their
pollution/ I pointed her toward Amy Smiths work
hopefully to reduce some polluion</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Moving into retorts or TLUD
unit may be in the future but I beleive for now she is
going to be expanding her</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">rocket stove capabilities.
I am glad to see other picking up on Rebacca's travails</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">I am not much into charcoal
until I can find a effective use for its heat and smoke,
maybe a copra dryer.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Michael </font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Marshall Islands</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>--- Original Message ----- </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid;
PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4;
font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="terra-matricula@hotmail.com"
href="mailto:terra-matricula@hotmail.com">Otto Formo</a>
</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Stoves
Bioenergylist</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" title="jonnygms@gmail.com"
href="mailto:jonnygms@gmail.com">Jon Anderson</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, June
16, 2013 10:13 PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves]
coconut usage in improved stoves</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Rebecca,<br>
Haveing tested briquettes made out of rice husks and
sawdust in a gasifier unit (Natural Draft), we
experienced the same challenge to ignite and creating
the pyrolytic front.<br>
<br>
I would suggest you create an upper layer of woodchips,
on top of your coconutshells, to create that pyrolytic
front more easily and ignite the chips, using
woodshaveings or even gras, as a starter. <br>
<br>
REMEMBER: <br>
Do not pour liquid materials, like kerosine , directly
into the fueling Chamber!<br>
This will distrub the pyrolytic process and reduce the
outcome of your charcoal or biochar production.<br>
<br>
Good Luck.<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
<br>
Otto<br>
<div>
<hr id="stopSpelling"> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 23:03:35
-0500<br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
CC: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:jonnygms@gmail.com">jonnygms@gmail.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] coconut usage in improved stoves<br>
<br>
<div class="ecxmoz-cite-prefix">Rebecca,<br>
<br>
To make your oling (coconut shell charcoal), the
TLUD technology is highly appropriate. The density
of the shell pieces makes them slightly difficult to
initially light (the same as with densified wood
pellets). But just make a slightly larger and
longer burning "starter fire" to get the initial
layer of pyrolyzing biomass that becomes the
pyrolytic front that migrates slowly down through
the column of shell pieces.<br>
<br>
How familiar are you with the TLUD technology?<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="ecxmoz-signature">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 6/15/2013 12:48 AM, Rebecca A. Vermeer wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:B62FC8A13BAA430E939760624F62E439@RebeccaHP">
<style><!--
--></style>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR:
rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<div>Michael,</div>
<div>I am so pleased to meet an ex copra maker
and one who knows the coconut so well!! So I
presume you know very well the native “tuba”
drink from the flower shoot? Do take a look
at my photo album below :</div>
<div> </div>
<p style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm
10pt" class="ecxMsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://plus.google.com/photos/113101643783889350444/albums/5889511496280160113/5889528293743607618?pid=5889528293743607618&oid=113101643783889350444"
target="_blank"><font style="FONT-SIZE:
11pt" color="#0000ff">https://plus.google.com/photos/113101643783889350444/albums/5889511496280160113/5889528293743607618?pid=5889528293743607618&oid=113101643783889350444</font></a></p>
<div>– you will see the coconut husk (bucong)
strung together; your preferred frond mid
ribs (palwa) and the charcoal from coconut
shells (inside sacks and plastic bags). The
charcoal makers are my biggest competitors for
the bucong I need to fire my eco-kalans. Take
a close look at photo #37 -the small pottery
to the right which looks like a vase uses
“oling” or coconut shell charcoal; to the
left you will find the big traditional kalans
which can use firewood, “palwa” or “bucong”.
The “bucong” is the fuel of the poorest and
the “bingka” or rice cake bakers; the “palwa”
is bought by the not so poor; firewood by the
middleclass; and the “oling “ is bought by
the many food vendors (like “tocinos” –
similar to sate in Malaysia or Indonesia,
steamed meat buns, boiling water for
disinfecting spoons & forks....) and
households for broiling fish and meats
(sinugba).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Oling is made by burning coconut shellls in
a hole in the ground –a smoky process with a
lot of energy going to waste. Do you know a
better way??</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Rebecca </div>
<div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt tahoma;
font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch:
normal">
<div style="BACKGROUND: rgb(245,245,245)">
<div><b>From:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="mtrevor@ntamar.net"
href="mailto:mtrevor@ntamar.net">mtrevor</a>
</div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 14, 2013
12:31 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion
of biomass cooking stoves</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> [Stoves] coconut
usage in improved stoves</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline;
FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0);
FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal;
TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Dear <font
size="3" face="Times New Roman">Rebecca
</font></font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">As an ex
copra maker I have met the coconut and
know it well.</font></div>
<div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">I have made
copra by the tons. <font size="2"
face="Arial">I know coconut husk and
flower shoot and fronds and shell </font>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Here
the husks are generally burned in
3/4/5 wedge sized pieces. After the
nuts are husked
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">women
haul them in from the husking
areas and sun dry them in the
yards. It is exhausting back
breaking work</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Husk
is a pretty good mosquito chaser
and its low burn temperature
make it very good for cooking
rice.</font></div>
<div>BUT THE SMOKE!!!!</div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">I
would like to see a retort
system running heat to a copra
drier to produce better copra
with out bugs and mold</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">with
</font><font size="2" face="Arial">coconut
shell charcoal for sale as a by
product.
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">In
more recent years the has
been some switch to your
"bucong" of course this mean
no more shell left over. </font> </div>
</font><font size="2" face="Arial">Splitting
husk with shell in to multiple
little wedges would </font><font
size="2" face="Arial">be
considered a lot of additional
work. Coconut husk it tough
stuff. </font><font size="2"
face="Arial">I find slicing off
the leaflets in the field and </font><font
size="2" face="Arial">using the
coconut frond mid rib chopped
into segments and split length
wise </font><font size="2"
face="Arial">easier. The
resulting stick like </font><font
size="2" face="Arial">pieces
feed into a rocket stove easier.
The f</font><font size="2"
face="Arial">lower spaths are
superb rocket stove fuel.</font></div>
</font> </div>
<div> </div>
</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Michael</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Marshall
Islands</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div>----- Original Message ----- </div>
</div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px
solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT:
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND:
rgb(228,228,228); font-size-adjust: none;
font-stretch: normal"><b>From:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="ravermeer@telus.net"
href="mailto:ravermeer@telus.net">Rebecca
A. Vermeer</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;
font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch:
normal"><b>To:</b> ; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="mtrevor@ntamar.net"
href="mailto:mtrevor@ntamar.net">Michael
N. Trevor</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;
font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch:
normal"><b>Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="ravermeer@telus.net"
href="mailto:ravermeer@telus.net">Rebecca
A. Vermeer</a> ; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="jonnygms@gmail.com"
href="mailto:jonnygms@gmail.com">Jon
Anderson</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;
font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch:
normal"><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, June 15,
2013 6:30 AM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;
font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch:
normal"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] : Re:
Insulation and stove life</div>
<div> </div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR:
rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<div>Hello Michael,</div>
<div>Thank you for your suggestions and
question. My comments are as follows:</div>
<div>1. I have considered experimenting
with high silicate ash from the foot
of Mt. Canlaon, in northern part of
Negros Oriental. The ash is free and
my partners with the 11th IB of the
Philippine Army in Negros Or. and the
Memorial Elementary School in Canlaon
would bring the ash to Dumaguete
City. If this does not work, I’ll
follow up on the TLUD route.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>2. Jon & Flip Anderson
(Aprovecho volunteers) have shown me
their work with insulating bricks to
form the combustion chamber in Timor
Leste. The insulating bricks are
weak, fragile bricks which require a
strong, heavy duty shell exterior
(e.g. cement)to protect the combustion
chamber and to support big cooking
pots. I still think that tiny
insulating “clay marbles” between the
heavy duty, all clay, fired kalan and
combustion chamber is the most
practical way to pursue. I am hopeful
Rolf and ECOWORXX can find a way to
produce these insulating clay marbles
or pebbles cheaply.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>3. For those who have not seen a
coconut husk – it is a by-product of
COPRA (mature coconut meat)
production. Every 3 months, the
coconuts are harvested, cut into 2
halves, and meat is extracted and
dried to make copra. The husk and
inside shell is dried in roof-covered
sheds or storage buildings to make
“bucong” – the fuel we use to fire the
eco-kalans to 900 degrees Celsius.
To use the “bucong” or coconut husk
with shell for fuel in a rocket stove,
it is requires chopping the husk with
a machete into narrow wedges (like a
cantaloupe) and a combustion chamber
opening as wide and as high
(5.5”x5.5”) as that of the eco-kalan.</div>
<div> </div>
<div style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY:
inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR:
rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: small;
FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION:
none">
<div style="FONT: 10pt tahoma;
font-size-adjust: none;
font-stretch: normal">
<div><font size="3" face="Calibri">Rebecca
Vermeer</font></div>
<div><font size="3" face="Calibri">Eco-Kalan
Project in the Philippines</font></div>
<div><font size="3" face="Calibri">British
Columbia, Canada</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:
rgb(245,245,245)">
<div><b>From:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="mtrevor@ntamar.net"
href="mailto:mtrevor@ntamar.net">mtrevor</a>
</div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 14,
2013 1:44 AM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass
cooking stoves</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves]
: Re: Insulation and stove life</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY:
inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR:
rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: small;
FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION:
none">
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Rebecca
</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Why
not gassify rice hulls in a TLUD
and then use the low cristobalite
"tough" high silicate ash to mix
your insulation. </font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Perhaps
take a lead fom Aprovecho's play
book and fire your liner in
multiple wedge shaped pieces
negating the need to break</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">things
up. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div>How do to "prepare" your coconut
husks for use in a rocket stove? </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Michael N Trevor</div>
<div>Marshall Islands</div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:
rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT:
5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;
BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228);
font-size-adjust: none;
font-stretch: normal"><b>From:</b>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="ravermeer@telus.net"
href="mailto:ravermeer@telus.net">Rebecca
A. Vermeer</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;
font-size-adjust: none;
font-stretch: normal"><b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="paul.olivier@esrla.com"
href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com">Paul
Olivier</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;
font-size-adjust: none;
font-stretch: normal"><b>Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="jonnygms@gmail.com"
href="mailto:jonnygms@gmail.com">Jon
Anderson</a> ; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;
font-size-adjust: none;
font-stretch: normal"><b>Sent:</b>
Friday, June 14, 2013 8:25 PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial;
font-size-adjust: none;
font-stretch: normal"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [Stoves] : Re: Insulation and
stove life</div>
<div> </div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri'; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0);
FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<div>Paul,</div>
<div>I currently use wood ash
as insulating material
between the kalan and
combustion chamber of the
eco-kalan (a rocket stove
using wood, charcoal, coconut
husk, shell, fronds and other
parts of the coconut tree).
The eco-kalan uses 75-85% less
firewood and therefore a lot
less ash is produced compared
to traditional kalans and
other traditional cookstoves
in Negros Oriental,
Philippines. A shortage in
supply of ash is one fact
<div> </div>
or which affects sales of
eco-kalan. I have
considered making an
insulating material using a
50-50 mix by volume of rice
hull & clay in the form of
pellets or bricks which would
be broken to pieces after
firing. I would fire the
pellets or the bricks along
with the eco-kalans up to 900
degrees Celsius. Will there
be significant formation of
cristobalite under these
conditions? Would handling
the fired pellets or the
breaking of the bricks be a
health hazard? Thanks,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Rebecca Vermeer</div>
<div style="FONT-STYLE: normal;
DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri'; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0);
FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT:
normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<div style="FONT: 10pt tahoma;
font-size-adjust: none;
font-stretch: normal">
<div> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:
rgb(245,245,245)">
<div><b>From:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="paul.olivier@esrla.com" href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com">Paul
Olivier</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Friday,
June 14, 2013 12:07 AM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="ravermeer@telus.net" href="mailto:ravermeer@telus.net">Rebecca A.
Vermeer</a> </div>
<div><b>Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="jonnygms@gmail.com" href="mailto:jonnygms@gmail.com">Jon Anderson</a>
; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="larryw@gotsky.com" href="mailto:larryw@gotsky.com">larry
winiarski</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re:
Fw: [Stoves] : Re:
Insulation and stove
life</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="FONT-STYLE: normal;
DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri'; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0);
FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT:
normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">Rebecca,<br>
If we directly burn river
hulls, there should be a lot
of cristobalite formed. If we
gasify, this problem should be
minimized, provided channeling
does not occur. Also there
might be cristobalite in the
particulate matter in the
combustion gases. With rice
hull pellets in a TLUD we
have a lot less channeling,
and a lot less particulate
matter. Therefore the rice
hull pellet becomes an
attractive fuel for these and
many other reasons.<br>
Thanks.<br>
Paul Olivier<br>
<div class="ecxgmail_quote">On
Jun 14, 2013 1:44 PM,
"Rebecca A. Vermeer" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ravermeer@telus.net">ravermeer@telus.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
style="BORDER-LEFT:
rgb(204,204,204) 1px
solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px
0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class="ecxgmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri';
FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<div>Hello Paul,</div>
<div>Larry just told
me that the silica
content of rice
hull ash is over
90%. At the ETHOS
2013 Conference, I
saw a TURBO stove
developed in the
Philippines which
used rice hull for
fuel. Given your
comment below
regarding
cristobalite
“which is a nasty
carcinogen” and
severely hazardous
to human health
(see link below),
would you
recommend the use
of rice hull as a
household fuel for
cookstoves? </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Rebecca Vermeer</div>
<div> </div>
<div>CRISTOBALITE
LINK:</div>
<div><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1657.pdf"
href="http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1657.pdf"
target="_blank">http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1657.pdf</a></div>
<div>
<div
style="FONT-STYLE:
normal; DISPLAY:
inline;
FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri';
FONT-SIZE:
small;
FONT-WEIGHT:
normal;
TEXT-DECORATION:
none"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="FONT-STYLE:
normal; DISPLAY:
inline;
FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri';
FONT-SIZE:
small;
FONT-WEIGHT:
normal;
TEXT-DECORATION:
none"><b>From:</b>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="paul.olivier@esrla.com" href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com"
target="_blank">Paul
Olivier</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:
10pt tahoma;
font-size-adjust:
none;
font-stretch:
normal">
<div
style="BACKGROUND:
rgb(245,245,245)">
<div><b>Sent:</b>
Wednesday,
June 12, 2013
12:01 AM</div>
<div><b>To:</b>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank">Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [Stoves] :
Re: Insulation
and stove life</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div
style="FONT-STYLE:
normal; DISPLAY:
inline;
FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri';
FONT-SIZE: small;
FONT-WEIGHT:
normal;
TEXT-DECORATION:
none">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Paal,<br>
<br>
</div>
One thing I
look for on my
burner is that
all burner
holes support
a flame
throughout the
process. If
channeling
occurs during
the process or
if char is
being burned
as the process
comes to a
close, then
one can see
burner holes
that do not
support a
flame. This
means that CO2
is being
discharged
from the
burner holes,
and of course
CO2 does not
burn. When CO2
is formed,
this
represents a
big
inefficiency,
since
combustion
takes place
far below the
pot. When this
happens the
sides of the
reactor can
easily turn
red hot and
melt. I do not
know how it is
possible to
spot the
presence of
CO2 if the top
of the reactor
stays open and
does not have
a lid with
burner holes.<br>
<br>
</div>
If one turns
up the fan a
bit too high
resulting in
channeling, it
can happen
that only a
few holes
(among a total
of 80 in my
case) do not
support a
flame. If I
turn the fan
down a bit and
shake the
reactor, this
problem is
immediately
corrected.
Also the
effect of the
presence of
CO2 can be
spotted by the
cook in
another way.
The
distribution
of heat to the
pan is not
even.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Also many
of the
positive
characteristics
of biochar are
lost when
biochar is
combusted and
is reduced to
ash. The
combustion of
biomass and
biochar takes
place when
channeling
occurs, and
the combustion
of biochar
takes place if
the fan is not
turned off at
the end of the
process. Rice
hull ash and
rice hill
biochar are
not at all the
same thing
when it comes
to growing
plants. <font
color="#ff0000">Also rice hull ash can easily contain cristobalite,
which is a
nasty
carcinogen.
Under ordinary
conditions, no
farmer should
be handling
this stuff.<br>
</font></div>
<div> </div>
Thanks.<br>
</div>
Paul<br>
<div
class="ecxgmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div
class="ecxgmail_quote">On
Wed, Jun 12,
2013 at 1:06
PM, Paal
Wendelbo <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:paaw@online.no" target="_blank">paaw@online.no</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
style="BORDER-LEFT:
rgb(204,204,204)
1px solid;
MARGIN: 0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;
PADDING-LEFT:
1ex"
class="ecxgmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri';
FONT-SIZE:
12pt">
<p
style="LINE-HEIGHT:
13pt; MARGIN:
0cm 0cm 10pt"
class="ecxMsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Ron</font></span></p>
<p
style="LINE-HEIGHT:
13pt; MARGIN:
0cm 0cm 10pt"
class="ecxMsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">By
end of flame
the color of
the char is
red to yellow,
that indicate
a temperature
of 700 to 800
˚C and when
there is no
smoke,
complete
combustion has
taken place.
Is that not
good for
biochar?</font></span></p>
<p
style="LINE-HEIGHT:
13pt; MARGIN:
0cm 0cm 10pt"
class="ecxMsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Regards
Paal W</font></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing
list<br>
<br>
to Send a
Message to the
list, use the
email address<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE
or Change your
List Settings
use the web
page<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more
Biomass
Cooking
Stoves, News
and
Information
see our web
site:<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br
clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Paul A.
Olivier PhD<br>
26/5 Phu Dong
Thien Vuong<br>
Dalat<br>
Vietnam<br>
<br>
Louisiana
telephone:
1-337-447-4124
(rings
Vietnam)<br>
Mobile:
090-694-1573
(in Vietnam)<br>
Skype address:
Xpolivier<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.esrla.com/" target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a> </div>
</div>
<br>
<hr>
_______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing
list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message
to the list, use
the email address<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or
Change your List
Settings use the
web page<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Biomass
Cooking Stoves,
News and
Information see
our web site:<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<hr>
_______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use
the email address<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List
Settings use the web page<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,
News and Information see our web
site:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/"
target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<hr>
<p align="left">No virus found in
this message.<br>
Checked by AVG - <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.avg.com"
target="_blank">www.avg.com</a><br>
Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus
Database: 3199/6406 - Release
Date: 06/12/13</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<hr>
_______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the
email address<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List
Settings use the web page<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News
and Information see our web site:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/"
target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p align="left">No virus found in this
message.<br>
Checked by AVG - <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.avg.com"
target="_blank">www.avg.com</a><br>
Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database:
3199/6406 - Release Date: 06/12/13</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<hr>
_______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings
use the web page<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and
Information see our web site:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/"
target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="ecxmimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________ Stoves
mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the
email address <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the
web page <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information
see our web site: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a></div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<hr> _______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web
page<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see
our web site:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
<br>
<p> </p>
<hr>
<p color="#000000" avgcert??="" align="left">No virus
found in this message.<br>
Checked by AVG - <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a><br>
Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3199/6413 -
Release Date: 06/15/13</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>Stoves mailing list</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address</span><br>
<span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web
page</span><br>
<span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information
see our web site:</span><br>
<span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a></span><br>
<span></span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>