<HTML><HEAD>
<STYLE type=text/css>p { margin: 0; }</STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Ron and Paul O</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Into the advertising leaflet of the
Oorja stove is written “at end of flame very little aches is left” and I have
tested the stove and can confirm it is right. I could see sparks up in the air
above stove. The grid of cast iron 10 mm thick was white yellow about 900-1000˚C
and quite dangerous to handle to take out some few char left.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">With regards Paal W</FONT></SPAN></P>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: inline">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=rongretlarson@comcast.net
href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 27, 2013 10:51 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves.</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: inline">
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: #000000">Paul
etal:<BR><BR> I should have added there are some good
discussions of the same stove/cylinder (glass) with numerous types of
fuels. And he shows they obey the same laws - can predict performance
(front velocity, power level (?) - given the superficial
velocty.)<BR><BR>Ron<BR><BR>
<HR id=zwchr>
<B>From: </B>rongretlarson@comcast.net<BR><B>To: </B>"Paul Anderson"
<psanders@ilstu.edu><BR><B>Cc: </B>"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"
<stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><BR><B>Sent: </B>Thursday, June 27, 2013
2:44:07 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: [Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves.<BR><BR>
<STYLE>p { margin: 0; }</STYLE>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: #000000">Paul:<BR><BR>
I know very little on the Oorja stove. But the thesis is mostly
(entirely?) on a packed bed, top lit. It is on the migratory pyrolytic
front (MPF) - so should be applicable to all TLUDs. I would like to
hear from any/all on whether I am getting the right reading about NOT consuming
the char.<BR><BR>Ron<BR><BR>
<HR id=zwchr>
<B>From: </B>"Paul Anderson" <psanders@ilstu.edu><BR><B>To:
</B>"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"
<stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><BR><B>Cc:
</B>rongretlarson@comcast.net<BR><B>Sent: </B>Thursday, June 27, 2013 2:12:57
PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: [Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves.<BR><BR>
<DIV class=moz-cite-prefix>Ron,<BR><BR>I am in Uganda now and have not had a
chance to see the thesis. Thank you for the comments.<BR><BR>About
#3, the Oorja stove is rather heavy for turning over, has a smallish fuel
chamber meaning not much char and only short TLUD burns, and has a loose cast
iron cup in the bottom that would fall out if the unit is tipped over to remove
the char. It is designed to NOT be tipped over for saving
char. <BR><BR>It is intentionally designed to have continuous
burning with the fire in the bottom consuming char. And when doing
that, the Oorja is NOT operating in the TLUD mode which is specifically
characterized by the migratory pyrolytic front (MPF), but the Oorja is not with
MPF after the rather small initial load of fuel has been pyrolyzed.
<BR><BR>Therefore, the Oorja (and most others with forced air FA) essentially is
NOT a TLUD because it is operated without the MPF except for the initial batch
of fuel.<BR><BR>I will be addressing this topic more at the Stove Camp at
Aprovecho on 22 - 26 July.<BR><BR>Paul<BR><PRE class=moz-signature>Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target=_blank>psanders@ilstu.edu</A> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="http://www.drtlud.com" target=_blank>www.drtlud.com</A></PRE>On
6/27/2013 2:43 PM, <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net"
target=_blank>rongretlarson@comcast.net</A> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
cite=mid:381415093.665753.1372362222069.JavaMail.root@sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
<STYLE>p { margin: 0; }</STYLE>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: #000000">Julien
and list<BR><BR>1. Thanks very much for providing this cite.
I have read most and find it to be a well done thesis. I wish we
had more like it.<BR><BR>2. The concepts of char and TLUDs are in here
thoroughly. But nothing on the idea of a stove designed to make
char. All char is presumed and desired to be consumed.
<BR><BR>3. My conclusion (would like to hear more) is that a good
case is made (not intentionally) for NOT consuming the produced char in a
TLUD (this one fan-powered and widely sold in India as the "Oorja"
(started by BP)). Very little gain in overall efficiency as the char is
consumed.<BR><BR>4. A major advance was his study of the importance of
ash in this "char" period as a poor radiator - thereby responsible for
(undesired) high char temperatures.<BR><BR>5. Most everything
shown as a function of superficial velocity (Vs) - with 16-17 cm/sec shown as
key dividing point in stove behavior.. Above which velocity one swtches
from char production to char consumption. I have not seen this
before.<BR><BR> For his highly automated fan system,
measuring Vs was apparently not so difficult. Anyone able to give a way
to get an easy estimate of Vs, when there is only natural
draft?<BR><BR>6. Quite a bit on the importance of low emissions of
CO.<BR><BR>7. Good information on both the experimental and
computational side of top-lit (packed bed) stoves. Not much here for
rocket stoves.<BR><BR>Have I got #3 right?<BR><BR>Ron<BR></DIV><BR>
<FIELDSET class=mimeAttachmentHeader></FIELDSET> <BR><PRE>_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target=_blank>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</A>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target=_blank>http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</A>
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Stoves
mailing list<BR><BR>to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<BR>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<BR><BR>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your
List Settings use the web
page<BR>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<BR><BR>for
more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
site:<BR>http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<BR><BR></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
_______________________________________________<BR>Stoves mailing list<BR><BR>to
Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<BR>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<BR><BR>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your
List Settings use the web
page<BR>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<BR><BR>for
more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
site:<BR>http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<BR><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>