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A 1-point reduction in pH means hydrogen ion activity (i.e. acidity)
is multiplied by 10.<br>
<br>
A 14-point reduction would mean hydrogen ion activity is multiplied
by 100000000000000.<br>
<br>
A 0.1 point reduction in pH means hydrogen ion activity is
multiplied by 10^(0.1) [here, ^ means "to the power of"], which is
about 1.25 - i.e. 25% more active hydrogen ions.<br>
<br>
The figures I have seen for the average oceanic pH reduction are
somewhere in the 0.11 to 0.12 range, which gives you about 30% more
active hydrogen ions.<br>
<br>
A 0.4 point reduction in pH (not sure why you chose that figure)
would multiply the number of active hydrogen ions by about 2.51
[10^(0.4)] - i.e. a 151% increase.<br>
<br>
This is the case wherever you are on the pH scale.<br>
<br>
m<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2013:07:05 00:37, Ronald
Hongsermeier wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:51D66998.8020101@web.de" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
Mark,<br>
<br>
on a logarithmic scale how many times can you make a 30% change?<br>
<br>
i.e., is there only hydrogen ion activity over <0.4points of
the pH scale or are you saying something different?<br>
<br>
regards,<br>
Ronald von pHneutralOberbayern<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 05.07.2013 07:41, Paul Olivier
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAOreFvZt4mduEVArYjX2X+jkTYSBsphxP=s7tSB7qpkr3rr27A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>Mark,<br>
<br>
</div>
Thanks so much for your contribution here.<br>
</div>
<div>We are in full agreement on this point.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Paul Olivier<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote"> On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 12:21 PM,
Mark Bigland-Pritchard / Low Energy Design Ltd <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mark@lowenergydesign.com" target="_blank">mark@lowenergydesign.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> I wouldn't normally
want to post off-topic, but I think it is necessary that
an error be corrected before this thread is put to
sleep.<br>
<br>
It is scientifically accurate to say that the acidity of
the oceans has increased.<br>
<br>
It is well documented that the average pH of the oceans
has decreased by about 0.1. Because pH is a logarithmic
scale, this actually means a 30% increase in the
hydrogen ion activity. In other words, the acidity has
increased by 30%. This is basic chemistry, not
"nonsense". (The fact that carbon dioxide, when
dissolved in water, forms carbonic acid, is also basic
chemistry.)<br>
<br>
But yes the oceans are alkaline. The shift in pH is
from about 8.2 to about 8.1. (Less alkaline = more
acidic, wherever you are on the pH scale.) People who
have dedicated their lives to studying oceanic
ecosystems are saying that even this ostensibly small
drop in pH is impacting on crustacea, corals, calcifying
microorganisms and other highly-calcium-dependent
species - and therefore also on the whole ecosystems
which depend on them for food or shelter. (And
remember, humans are at the top of the food chain in
many of those ecosystems.) That is why this is a
serious matter.<span class="HOEnZb"><font
color="#888888"><br>
<br>
mark</font></span>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 2013:07:04 21:14, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Paul
O</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The
point Andrew was making when asking that the
conversation about climate be moved to
another site was to prevent that sort of
nonsense cluttering up this site which is a
domestic stoves discussion list.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">When
someone repeats a claims that the ‘oceans
have increased in acidity by one third’ and
implying it is because of man-made CO2
emissions from fossil fuels it deserves to
be labelled exactly that o nonsense. The
oceans are alkaline, not acidic and cannot
‘increase in acidity by one third’ –
whatever that means. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
wrote to you privately because the
discussion does not belong here.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Please
accept the moderator’s view.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thanks</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Crispin
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"> Stoves [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Olivier<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 04, 2013 8:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Stoves] on ocean
acidification</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In a previous email I
had cited an article by Mark Bittman
concerning ocean acidification. Crispin
responded to me off-list and said:</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">That
was the most outrageous set of
nonsense on oceans and CO2 I have
seem. What rubbish. </span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> The
oceans are not acidic.</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">CO2
absorbed by water turns about 1%
into carbonic acid, a fragile
composition with a short lifespan.</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">If
the oceans were to absorb many many
gigatons of CO2 it would become
slightly less alkaline.</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">It
seems that Bittman does not even
know the most basic facts about
oceans and just attributes
everything he sees to ‘AGW’. His
writings are not helping the
reputation of science. His view are
not informing the discussion. His
conclusions are worthy of ridicule.</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Fish
and mollusk populations rise and
fall with the food supply. When the
PDO changed in 1976 there were also
large population shifts. It has
shifted again. The shift is 100%
natural and has nothing to do with
human fuel use.</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span>I
replied to his email as follows:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i>Please do not
label everything that you disagree
with as rubbish, nonsense, or as
worthy of ridicule. It is hard to
conduct a debate when you use such
language.<br>
<br>
I would like to draw your attention to
the following:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.sightline.org/research/northwest-ocean-acidification/"
target="_blank">http://www.sightline.org/research/northwest-ocean-acidification/</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.sightline.org/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/02/OA-primer1.pdf"
target="_blank">http://www.sightline.org/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/02/OA-primer1.pdf</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification"
target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification</a></i></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><i><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/Ocean+Acidification"
target="_blank">http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/Ocean+Acidification</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/What+is+Ocean+Acidification%3F"
target="_blank">http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/What+is+Ocean+Acidification%3F</a></i></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i>I would like to
ask the members of this stove list:
why do we go about designing stoves?
Are we only concerned about poor
people in developing countries who sit
around dirty campfires? Or do we want
to design stoves that at the same time
address important issues such as
climate change, global warming and
ocean acidification? <br>
</i><br>
Thanks.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Paul</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">---<br>
Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>
26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong<br>
Dalat<br>
Vietnam<br>
<br>
Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124
(rings Vietnam)<br>
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>
Skype address: Xpolivier<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.esrla.com/"
target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a>
</p>
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-- <br>
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26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong<br>
Dalat<br>
Vietnam<br>
<br>
Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)<br>
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>
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