<div dir="ltr"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Paul Olivier</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>></span><br>
Date: Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 6:12 AM<br>Subject: Re: FW: [Stoves] ocean acidification - ON THE SIDE<br>To: Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com">crispinpigott@gmail.com</a>><br><br><br><div dir="ltr">
<div><div>Crispin,<br><br></div>Please do not label everything that you disagree with as rubbish, nonsense, or as worthy of ridicule.<br>It is hard to conduct a debate when you use such language.<br><br>I would like to draw your attention to the following:<br>
<a href="http://www.sightline.org/research/northwest-ocean-acidification/" target="_blank">http://www.sightline.org/research/northwest-ocean-acidification/</a><br><a href="http://www.sightline.org/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/02/OA-primer1.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.sightline.org/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/02/OA-primer1.pdf</a><br>
</div><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification</a><br><div><a href="http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/Ocean+Acidification" target="_blank">http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/Ocean+Acidification</a><br>
<a href="http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/What+is+Ocean+Acidification%3F" target="_blank">http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/What+is+Ocean+Acidification%3F</a><br><br></div><div>I would like to ask the members of this stove list: why do we go about designing stoves? Are we only concerned about poor people in developing countries who sit around dirty campfires? Or do we want to design stoves that at the same time address important issues such as climate change, global warming and ocean acidification? <br>
</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks.<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br></font></span></div><div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">Paul</font></span><div><div class="h5"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 9:34 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com" target="_blank">crispinpigott@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-CA"><div><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Dear Paul<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">That was the most outrageous set of nonsense on oceans and CO2 I have seem. What rubbish. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">The oceans are not acidic.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">CO2 absorbed by water turns about 1% into carbonic acid, a fragile composition with a short lifespan.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">If the oceans were to absorb many many gigatons of CO2 it would become slightly less alkaline.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">It seems that Bittman does not even know the most basic facts about oceans and just attributes everything he sees to ‘AGW’. His writings are not helping the reputation of science. His view are not informing the discussion. His conclusions are worthy of ridicule.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Fish and mollusk populations rise and fall with the food supply. When the PDO changed in 1976 there were also large population shifts. It has shifted again. The shift is 100% natural and has nothing to do with human fuel use.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Below is the Alaskan temperature chart showing the impact of the 1976 PDO shift – it warmed 1 deg C in a single year. It shifted again in about 2005. A few weeks ago, there were about 1000 low temperature records set in Alaska in 7 days. That is an effect of the PDO.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Regards<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Crispin<u></u><u></u></span></p><p><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p><img src="cid:image001.jpg@01CE78A2.0634C600" height="314" width="472"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p>
<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"> Stoves [mailto:<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Olivier<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 03, 2013 6:42 PM<br><b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br><b>Subject:</b> [Stoves] ocean acidification<u></u><u></u></span></p><p><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p>T<i>hat CO2, of course, leads to global warming and climate change, as well as what’s called <a href="http://na.oceana.org/en/blog/2010/12/ocean-acidification-the-untold-stories" target="_blank">ocean acidification</a>, which might be thought of as oceanic global warming and is a greater catastrophe than any spill to date. The oceans absorb about 30 percent of the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, creating carbonic acid. Since the start of the industrial revolution we’ve added about 500 billion metric tons of carbon dioxide to the oceans, which are 30 percent more acidic than they were a couple of hundred years ago.</i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p><i>This acidification makes it difficult for calcifying organisms — coral, snails and oysters and other mollusks, and more — to build shells and skeletons sturdy enough for them to survive. Many of these are on the bottom of the food chain and, as they begin to die off (we’ve already seen <a href="http://www.commercial-fishing.org/seafood/ocean-acidification-linked-to-pacific-oyster-declines-a641.html" target="_blank">massive oyster declines on the Pacific coast</a>), the effects trickle up. Acidification has already wreaked havoc on coral reefs, on which about 25 percent of all marine life depends. By the end of this century, Safina says, the ocean will begin dissolving coral reefs — unless we make a big change in our fossil-fuel use.</i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p><i><a href="http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/19/whats-worse-than-an-oil-spill/" target="_blank">http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/19/whats-worse-than-an-oil-spill/</a></i><u></u><u></u></p><p><i><a href="http://oceana.org/en/blog/2010/12/ocean-acidification-the-untold-stories" target="_blank">http://oceana.org/en/blog/2010/12/ocean-acidification-the-untold-stories</a></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<div><p style="margin-bottom:12pt">We talk a lot about global warming and climate change, and there are some of us who go so far as to deny the role that humans play in making this happen. But a significant amount of the CO2 that humans pump into the atmosphere ends up in our oceans and is destroying them. The science here becomes much harder to deny.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p style="margin-bottom:12pt">As Bittman explains, we have to make a big change in our fossil fuel use. For many of us on this stove list this means that we should start designing and using stoves that replace fossil fuel gas with syngas. Every meal we cook, even in Europe and the USA, could be fueled with with syngas. And as we cook with syngas, we produce biochar, and the CO2 that is locked away in this biochar does not end up in our oceans.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p style="margin-bottom:12pt">It is easy to design stoves for poor people in Third World countries. It is a much bigger challenge to design them for use each day in our own kitchens.<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div><p>Thanks.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p>Paul Olivier<span><font color="#888888"><u></u><u></u></font></span></p></div><span><font color="#888888"><div><p>-- <br>Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>
26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong<br>Dalat<br>Vietnam<br><br>Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)<br>Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>Skype address: Xpolivier<br><a href="http://www.esrla.com/" target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div></font></span></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong<br>Dalat<br>Vietnam<br>
<br>Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)<br>Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>Skype address: Xpolivier<br><a href="http://www.esrla.com/" target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a>
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</div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong<br>Dalat<br>Vietnam<br>
<br>Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)<br>Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>Skype address: Xpolivier<br><a href="http://www.esrla.com/" target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a>
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