<div dir="ltr">Please see comments below.<br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Paul Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Thank you Richard and Andrew,<br>
<br>
I agree with your comments below EXCEPT that you did not change the Subject line. And therefore List readers who are fed up with the oceanic acidity discussion are unlikely to have read your comments. By the way, I did NOT read those messages. But I do read whatever Andrew and Richard contribute to the Listserv.<br>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>I am somewhat baffled that anyone on this list might be "fed up" with topics of global warming, climate change and ocean acidification. These are real issues that could impact how many of us go about designing stoves.<br>
</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Now, about designs for the affluent AND the poor. This relates to "trickle down technology" that believes that by helping the rich, the poor will benefit..... EVENTUALLY benefit. Sure. a few years or decades or lifetimes later.<br>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>What I am advocating is not trickle down technology. All that I am saying is that we should design stoves for rich and poor alike.<br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
I am glad that affluent societies financially supported cell/mobile phone development. A great example of trickle down technology coming rather quickly. But it reached the poor societies because business found that it could make money off of the needs of poor people to also communicate. And microchips etc are really inexpensive. We are unlikely to see similar benefits relating to cookstoves.<br>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Once again I do not advocate trickle down technology.<br> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Even as it is today, MUCH of stove work/efforts are targeted to the more affluent of the poor, those who are in the upper parts of the BASE of the pyramid (BOP). That makes more sense than trying to get biomass fuel stoves into typical American and European households. </blockquote>
<div><br></div><div>What not target all people, rich and poor alike?<br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> But that approach (well established and supported by the GACC and the World Bank ACESS programs) still leaves a massive lack of attention to the needs of the true base of the BOP. </blockquote>
<div><br></div><div>I do not advocate in any way that we neglect the needs of the those who are situated at the base of the pyramid. All that I am saying is that, in our effort to design stoves, we should also target people who live in the USA and Europe, especially those people who rely exclusively on fossil fuels to cook a meal. What could be offensive or even controversial about this? I am totally baffled.<br>
<br></div><div>Thanks.<br></div><div>Paul Olivier<br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">But at least the distance to trickle down from the upper BOP to the lower BOP is less (and should be faster) than trickle down from the Top of the Pyramid to be base of the BOP.<br>
<br>
If you decide to reply to this Thread of messages, please stick to this topic. (Or change the Subject line to reflect what you are actually talking about. After all, the Subject line has at least two purposes: One is to continue the Thread, and the other is to inform the reader what is the actual subject being discussed.)<br>
<br>
Paul with 4 more days in Uganda, then I bring home over 300 pounds of stove progress (available baggage allowance for 3 people) to show at Stove Camps and biochar meetings in late July, early Sept and mid October in Oregon, Tennessee, and Massachusetts, respectively. I hope to see many of you as I cross the USA by car from my home base in Illinois.<br>
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<br>
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<br>
Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072<br>
Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a><br>
<br>
On 7/5/2013 7:01 PM, Richard Stanley wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi Andrew.<br>
<br>
Climate "discussions" aside, I wanted to elaborate on the implications of your observation about where" designing" is easier:<br>
I agree with you that it is easier to design anything "for someone" ( especially those less equipped to express their opinions and experiences, needs and resources)…... than to do it with them in their context…<br>
<br>
My own experience tells me that the latter is the sticky part that few really want to get into and it's a huge part of determining whether or<br>
not ones best intentions stick or not. That sticky part makes really designing from within a good bit more challenging that simply designing a technical object and selling it here….<br>
<br>
Richard Stanley<br>
NW part of the Americas<br>
==================<br>
On Jul 4, 2013, at 12:14 AM, <a href="mailto:ajheggie@gmail.com" target="_blank">ajheggie@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br>
<br>
[Default] On Thu, 4 Jul 2013 05:41:33 +0700,Paul Olivier<br>
<<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
It is easy to design stoves for poor people in Third World countries. It is<br>
a much bigger challenge to design them for use each day in our own kitchens.<br>
</blockquote>
Stove design and use is on topic for [stoves] but there are other<br>
forums on which it is better to discuss world changing effects,<br>
important as they might be.<br>
<br>
AJH<br>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong<br>Dalat<br>Vietnam<br>
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