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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Paal,<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>This is the way I am looking at it now:<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span></b><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We first need to know if a stove can ‘simmer’. Forget the fuel savings for now.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span></b><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Stating an exact temperature for a lab ‘to simmer’ is not practical IMO because the water is heated at the bottom, thermometers differ, some pots covered etc. We just need to see if it can maintain a simmering temperature (say 85c to 98c?) and see how well we can maintain a steady temperature to determine if a stove can do that. Low power. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span></b><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Stove Camp, where my E-Mail was intended to address, is a place they like friendly competition for the best stove. Thinking this would be a good one for them. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>4)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span></b><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Once we get a list of stoves that can simmer we can determine how well they do it based on fuel savings. First we need the list. And then we need to get the procedure established to measure stove efficiency that we agree upon. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>5)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span></b><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Purpose is to determine if a stove will keep a constant Low Power state over time. A most steady temperature reading will determine this. Nothing to do with fuel efficiency.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.25in'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cooking at low temperatures ‘Hay Boxes and the like’ cannot be included in this test because they would put the stoves being tested to shame.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Frank <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paal Wendelbo<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 25, 2013 12:24 AM<br><b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Aprovecho Stove Camp<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Frank<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:13.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Simmering cannot be a kind of a competition, I feel it has more to do with fuel saving and food preparation. Some types of food need lower temperature during the preparation and some types of food like rice, eggs and fish will be ready at 60 to 80 C˚. In the 1930 ties here in Norway it was common to utilize the “hay box” to save fuel and energy. That worked well for porridge and rice.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:13.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Working with my horizontal TLUD-ND I found that when the flame was ended the temperature in the 3 liter of water fall from 100 C˚ to 78 C˚ in one hour from the heat of the remaining char</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:13.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Regards Paal W</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:frank@compostlab.com" title="frank@compostlab.com">Frank Shields</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Sent:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> Wednesday, July 24, 2013 6:37 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>To:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Subject:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> Re: [Stoves] Aprovecho Stove Camp<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>*I suggest plotting the temperature of the water. Once the water temperature has reached 95c see how well you can keep it as close to 95c for say, one hour, as possible. The stove producing the straightest line gets the prize. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Frank <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> Stoves [<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paal Wendelbo<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 24, 2013 2:42 AM<br><b>To:</b> Inversiones Falcon; Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Aprovecho Stove Camp<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:13.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:black'>Stove camp </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:13.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:black'>Will it be possible for the camp to define the term <i>“simmering”? </i>From 100 C˚ down to what temperature will be classified as simmering? It is important for the valuation of the use of bio char.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:13.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:black'>Regards Paal W</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:invfalcones53@yahoo.com" title="invfalcones53@yahoo.com">Inversiones Falcon</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Sent:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> Tuesday, July 23, 2013 6:56 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>To:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Subject:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> Re: [Stoves] Aprovecho Stove Camp<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span class=hps><span style='color:black'>Ron</span></span><span style='color:black'> <span class=hps>Thanks</span> <span class=hps>for keeping us informed</span>, I am personally <span class=hps>very grateful,</span> <span class=hps>I wonder if</span> <span class=hps>you can take some</span> <span class=hps>pictures</span> <span class=hps>especially</span> the <span class=hps>Guatemala</span> <span class=hps>plancha.</span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><br><br>Thanks againg<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>Gus<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> "<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>><br><b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>> <br><b>Cc:</b> Art Donnelly <<a href="mailto:art.donnelly@seachar.org">art.donnelly@seachar.org</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 23, 2013 8:14 AM<br><b>Subject:</b> [Stoves] Aprovecho Stove Camp</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id=yiv0918033042><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>List:<br><br> This just a short summary of yesterday's first of five days at the Aprovecho Stove Camp. This year, they are focusing on TLUDs. About 50 people were at the opening session, with about 20 - 25 from the different parts of Aprovecho, and maybe 10 staying of those on as part of the camp. <br> The old timers here included<br> a Dean Still, who was the key organizer. I was most amazed of everything here about how much Aprovecho has grown and changed over the 15 or so years I have known Dean (who says he will retire in a year).<br> 1. We go maybe today to a new factory for an off-shot firm called InStove (Only institutional stoves (like one 100 liters). Damon Ogle is with them now. A first overseas factory coming soon. Only Rocket principles here.<br> 2. We will visit the factory where they are making the US StoveTec <br> 3. We will visit a new 5 acre campus about 6 miles away - a former high school where they will be moving to this year.<br> 4. I heard a little about a new large research grant from DoE - one of four nationally,<br> 5. There were staff people all over the place - maybe more than ten (?) not part of the camp. <br> 6. A key organizer who introduced Dean was Mark Hatfield. <br> 7. Owner of the Apro property was Fred Colgan - alo head of InStove<br> 8. Larry Winiarski is a leader of one on 4-5 subgroups that formed. Interestng oven design with a Rocket, built by a couple named Anderson. Also a ceramic Rocket from Philippines.<br> 9. Dean is leading one of the 4-5 subgroups - which is mostly on TLUDs, but one large plancha design (18 by 24 inch - $22) plancha from Guatemala. Much of yesterday learning how to use test equipment<br><br> b. Paul Anderson, who brought 10 flat packs of a nice looking new TLUD design from Uganda, for on-site assembly. <br>Maybe 8-10 people in his subgoup. Mostly will be doing testing here on (like all)<br>Paul gave a nice one hour intro to TLUDS. Both a son and grandson are here.<br><br> c. Art Donnelly at last minute decided to assemble one of his very large TLUD stoves from Costa Rica. His primary air control from slight tilt using a wedge at the bottom.<br><br>Of course many new-comers. I ended up speaking most to three school teachers from D.C., hoping to establish a stove design challenge for 7th and 8th graders<br><br>More coming. Questions? Ron<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=3 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=3 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>