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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Dear Kevin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Because the topic is complicated and involves chemical formulas (to be discussed meaningfully) I can suggest the following resource as a good into if people really want to know about the subject.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/07/08/ocean-acidi-what/">http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/07/08/ocean-acidi-what/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>This provides many of the details that one needs to do their own thinking about the matter.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Steve Burnett shows how to calculate the change in ocean pH as a result of industrial activity (assuming that 100% of the CO2 increase in past years is human in origin. The change is from pH 8.2 to pH 8.199 which is, as he points out, unmeasurable. Thus any claim to have ‘measured a human impact’ on the pH of the oceans is baseless.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Steve uses the correct but for the popular masses, slightly misleading metric of the number of moles of hydrogen ions per litre. The misleading part is that people are relating a change in the number of moles of hydrogen ions to ‘becoming acidic’ in the sense that the claim is made (I have seen it often) that the oceans are turning ‘acidic’ because of human emissions of CO2 and that this acidic water will eat the shells off the back of many denizens of the deep. It is this baseless and untenable bit of Hollywood that we have to oppose. No shells are being eaten off the backs of creatures because of man-induced CO2 nor will they be. The ionic or anionic activity of the oceans could easily be discussed in terms of alkalinity, inverting S. P. L. Sørensen’s approach to chemical conditions. That is not important. Ultimately it is devious double-speak that we have to oppose, not units of convenience.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The relevance to stoves are several. I have in the past mentioned the use of acid and alkaline solutions for the management and mixing of ceramic stove body material. pH is an important factor is clay materials – not that people talk about it much though. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Wood ash as you know is quite alkaline and poses a health threat if inhaled. We have not much spoken of wood ash and its commercial uses but in West Africa they make what is known as “Nigerian soap” which is black and soft. It is made from animal fat and wood ash only using a simple system taught to Nigerians by missionaries. It was effective enough to make useable soap and spread by word of mouth over the centuries. You can still buy it at the markets in Accra and so on.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The pH of the condensates from wood fires should also be a concern of ours. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Crispin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0mm 0mm 0mm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Kevin<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 08, 2013 11:11 AM<br><b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] more on ocean acidification<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Dear Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0mm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" title="paul.olivier@esrla.com">Paul Olivier</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Thursday, August 08, 2013 9:12 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Re: [Stoves] more on ocean acidification<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Kevin,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>No one in the scientific community is saying that the pH of the oceans have fallen below 7.0 and become acidic.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'># The statements certainly create the impression that "Anthropogenic CO2 is making the Oceans acidic.".</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Your questions miss the point altogether.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'># I am asking the question, in an attempt to put things in perspective. The issue lacks perspective.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Please read the links I have posted.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'># I did. Both contain little of substance, but rather, seem to be "an embarkation on studies to see if we have a problem."</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The first link <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/03/opinion/marine-life-on-a-warming-planet.html">http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/03/opinion/marine-life-on-a-warming-planet.html</a> seems to confirm the need for an answer to my previous question.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>" </span>The first step will be to monitor ocean acidity with greater breadth and accuracy and to create an acidity budget — an assessment of just how much acidity is contributed by whom. Next it will seek to reduce carbon pollution from land-based sources, including agricultural and urban runoff. <span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>"</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The second link </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a href="http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO1306/S00439/un-general-assembly-to-explore-impact-of-ocean-acidification.htm">http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO1306/S00439/un-general-assembly-to-explore-impact-of-ocean-acidification.htm</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>is basically an "expression of concern" with the opening paragraph being:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>" </span>New York, Jun 17 2013 - The United Nations General Assembly will begin today its consideration of the impacts that the increasing acidification of the world's oceans will have on the marine environment and on people.<span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>"</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>It puzzles me that if the "Ocean Acidification Problem" is so serious, why did the UN only start to take a look at it on 17 June, 2013?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Please see: <a href="http://www.pnas.org/content/106/30/12235.full">http://www.pnas.org/content/106/30/12235.full</a>, and in particular its Fig. 2. , copied below:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><img border=0 width=659 height=496 id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.gif@01CE942A.CAC7C4B0"><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Note, in the 5th panel, that the pH has dropped by .002 pH units per year in the top 500 meters, but has INCREASED by about .0005 pH units from the 600 to 8,000 meter depth. In terms of total ocean volume, we get</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>A: 0 to 500 meters: 500 x (-.002) = -1 </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>and </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>B: 600 to 8,000 meters: (8000-600) x (+.0005) = 7400 x +.0005 = + 3.7</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Thus when the total "big picture" is considered, the bulk of the Oceans is getting more alkaline, and is NOT acidifying.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'># One could suggest that "The Alarmists" are simply revealing part of the problem, and not showing the whole picture.This simple calculation could suggest that what the world needs now is MORE CO2 and better mixing, to prevent pH at depth from increasing excessively.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>This issue is far too complex to be addressed in the shallow way that "The Alartmist Press" treats it. Aslo, the issue is probably best moved to another forum, like Biochar Policy, in that it has little relevance to the Stove List.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Best wishes,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Kevin</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0mm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>Paul<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 6:41 PM, Kevin <<a href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net" target="_blank">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0mm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Dear Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Crispin indicates that the mass of the ocean is about 1.33 billion billion tons, i.e., 1.33 x 10^12 tons. That is a lot of water.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The oceans are now alkaline. Some CO2 additions will lower the pH of the ocean, but the oceans will still be alkaline.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>How much CO2 would be required to actually make the oceans acidic? </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>At current rates of anthropogenic CO2 production, how long would it take for the Oceans to actually become acidic?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Thanks!</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#888888'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#888888'>Kevin</span><span style='color:#888888'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0mm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank" title="paul.olivier@esrla.com">Paul Olivier</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank" title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Thursday, August 08, 2013 7:08 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Re: [Stoves] more on ocean acidification<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Crispin,<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>The term that the scientific community uses is "ocean acidification," and this is a very real environmental problem that most people in the scientific community do not deny.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Many thanks.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Paul Olivier<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com" target="_blank">crispinpigott@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0mm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dear Friends</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I have been catching up on less important correspondence after being in Asia for a while. There is one thing that still needs to be put down like a broken-legged horse and that of course is the idea that CO<sub>2</sub> ‘acidifies’ the ocean.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Because this is a high school chemistry level topic and I know some of us took other things – or as the drummer in my brothers class said, “I don’t remember Chemistry, I was stoned that year.”</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So for those of you who were also stoned that year or can’t remember back that far, here is a simple review of pH with special reference to the oceans, CO<sub>2</sub> and the false, badly mis-named idea that CO<sub>2</sub> ‘increases the acidity of the oceans’.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The term pH refers to one of three distinct chemical conditions which bear no relationship to each other. One is called acidity, another is called alkalinity and third is ‘neutral’. Acidity and alkalinity are so different that if equal in ‘strength’ they cancel each other completely leaving a neutral condition. Different pH numbers refer to different conditions.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Acid solutions (it has to be a solution with water in it) have a chemistry that has Hydrogen atoms stripped of their single electron. They are thus positively changed and seeking an electron. This they will happily strip out of anything passing by if they can find it, tearing the molecules to bits in the process which is why acids ‘eat’ things.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Alkaline solutions (again, involving water) have molecules that have an extra electron available (but not Hydrogen) and are thus negatively charged. They will give away an electron happily, often wrecking the object that receives it which is why they eat things too but by a completely different process.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Both acidic and alkaline solutions can corrode things like metals and rocks. One takes electrons and one gives them. Quote opposite. The two conditions are so incompatible they cannot be present at the same time in a mixed solution. It is one, the other or ‘neutral’ if neither condition is present.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If you have an alkaline solution like the ocean (pH 7.8 - 8.4 depending on where you are, the time of day and a host of other things) and you want to neutralise it so that all its spare electrons are taken up by various things, you would have to add something acidic. Adding CO<sub>2</sub> by bubbling it through the seawater will convert some of the CO<sub>2</sub> (about 1%) to carbonic acid which has a deficiency of electrons and that acid will merge with whichever passing opportunity presents itself. The corresponding alkaline molecule will be neutralised as its spare electron will be passed to the carbonic acid molecule (which has an H<sup>-</sup> in it) and afterwards neither will have any charge. Both will be neutralised if the charges are balanced.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Because this happens very quickly, you cannot actually find any carbonic acid in the ocean. Nor any other acid. The oceans are not acidic at all. Any ocean has quite a store of available electrons. Anything acidic you dump into the sea is quickly neutralised and the pH drops slightly because it is closer to a neutral condition. The oceanic capacity to hand over electrons to any passing electron gap is very, very large. There are several processes that would begin to offer electrons but do not because the ocean is too alkaline to allow them to get started. The ability to do this is called the ‘buffering’ capacity. You may remember ‘Bufferin’ the pill that neutralises stomach acid. The pill is alkaline and has a large buffering capacity so it can hand a lot of electrons over to the acid in the stomach, thus neutralising it. If you took a whole bottle of Bufferin pills, your stomach would not become less and less and less acidic. It would be neutralised and then become alkaline and remains so until the spare electrons were taken up in a neutralising process. People are, in general, alkaline and should eat alkaline foods to remain healthy. Excess acid is a problem.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>By the same measure, reducing the availability of spare electrons in the ocean water does not <i>at all</i> make the water acidic because it still has many more available electrons. It is less alkaline, but it is not acidic at all – zero in the ‘acidic scale’ (there isn’t one). </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>In order to make a convenient metric for describing these two conditions (which can cancel each other out very predictably) the pH scale is used. Above 7.0 the solution has available electrons and is termed alkaline. Below 7.0 is has a deficiency of electrons and is called ‘acidic’. The reason for the use of two different terms is they are chemically dissimilar and cannot coexist.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Acidity of a solution is often represented by the Hydrogen equivalent [H<sup>+</sup>]<sub>T</sub> which is the total number of Hydrogen electrons that would be needed to neutralise it.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Alkalinity is often expressed in terms of its equivalence to Calcium Carbonate CACO<sub>3</sub> in mg/Litre.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Q. Can CO<sub>2</sub> ‘acidify’ water? </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>A. Yes, if the water is neutral to begin with, or already acidic, like rain water. Because rain water is acidic, when it falls into the ocean it neutralises the drops of seawater where it touches, before becoming diluted again by the surrounding ocean. Rainwater does not impart to the ocean any microscopic ability to withdraw electrons. It is quickly neutralised by some seawater. When it is finished a few seconds later, the acid has been destroyed.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Q. If one bubbled CO<sub>2 </sub>through sea water, would it eventually become acidic?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>A. Yes. If you were to first neutralise all the available electrons by mopping them up, after that it would start to become acidic. It would not considered be acidic at all until the whole body of the sample had first been neutralised. These two conditions cannot co-exist.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Q. What about ‘acid rain’. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>A. All rain is acidic. It is acidic because fresh water absorbs CO2 rapidly from the atmosphere, converting about 1% into carbonic acid. This falls into the oceans and reacts with the available alkaline molecules. It is easy to acidify rain. It is very difficult to neutralise the oceans because of the rocks upon which they sit which have a huge, massive buffering capacity. There are numerous life cycles of creatures that withdraw CO<sub>2</sub>, CO3<sup>-2</sup> and HCO<sub>3</sub>- when it is available. Obviously CACO<sub>3</sub> is high on the list for uptake by creatures that make shells.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Q. Which has a larger impact on ocean alkalinity: atmospheric CO<sub>2</sub> or rain containing CO<sub>2</sub>?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>A. Not clear. Rain has a big effect because oceans actually have difficulty picking up enough CO<sub>2</sub> to drive the level much above 600 ppm because of the limited surface area compared with the volume and the huge buffering capacity. Rain is much higher - about 1120 ppm CO<sub>2</sub>. Global rainfall totals about half a million cubic kilometers per year and contains about 600 billion tons of CO<sub>2</sub> which is about 20 times <a href="http://www.global-greenhouse-warming.com/anthropogenic-climate-change.html" target="_blank">human</a> output. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Q. What is the mass of the oceans?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>A. 1.332 billion billion tons.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Q. Do reputable scientific organisations refer to ‘acidifying’ the oceans even though that is not, chemically, what it happening?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>A. Yes. NASA <a href="http://www.earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/OceanCarbon/" target="_blank">does</a>. “As we burn fossil fuels and atmospheric carbon dioxide levels go up, the ocean absorbs more carbon dioxide to stay in balance. But this absorption has a price: these reactions lower the water’s pH, <span style='background:yellow'>meaning it’s more acidic</span>.”</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Q. But it is less alkaline, not more acidic. Why do they write that when it is untrue, in fact it is unscientific?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>A. I don’t think anyone knows. Perhaps they too missed Chemistry in high school.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>+++++++</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards<br>Crispin</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Friday, July 26, 2013 3:25 PM<br><b>Subject:</b> [Stoves] more on ocean acidification</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><a href="http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=noaa-scientists-embark-voyage-asses-ocean-acidification" target="_blank">http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=noaa-scientists-embark-voyage-asses-ocean-acidification</a><br clear=all><br>-- <br>Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong<br>Dalat<br>Vietnam<br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br clear=all><br>-- <br>Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong<br>Dalat<br>Vietnam<br><br>Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)<br>Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>Skype address: Xpolivier<br><a href="http://www.esrla.com/" target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br clear=all><br>-- <br>Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong<br>Dalat<br>Vietnam<br><br>Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)<br>Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>Skype address: Xpolivier<br><a href="http://www.esrla.com/" target="_blank">http://www.esrla.com/</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></body></html>