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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Dear Paul</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Crispin indicates that the mass of the ocean is about 1.33
billion billion tons, i.e., 1.33 x 10^12 tons. That is a lot of
water.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>The oceans are now alkaline. Some CO2 additions will lower
the pH of the ocean, but the oceans will still be alkaline.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>How much CO2 would be required to actually make the oceans
acidic? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>At current rates of anthropogenic CO2 production, how long
would it take for the Oceans to actually become acidic?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Thanks!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Kevin</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=paul.olivier@esrla.com href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com">Paul
Olivier</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 08, 2013 7:08
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] more on ocean
acidification</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Crispin,<BR><BR></DIV>The term that the scientific community uses is
"ocean acidification," and this is a very real environmental problem that most
people in the scientific community do not deny.<BR><BR></DIV>Many
thanks.<BR></DIV>Paul Olivier<BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com"
target=_blank>crispinpigott@gmail.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV lang=EN-CA vlink="purple" link="blue">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Dear
Friends<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I
have been catching up on less important correspondence after being in Asia
for a while. There is one thing that still needs to be put down like a
broken-legged horse and that of course is the idea that CO<SUB>2</SUB>
‘acidifies’ the ocean.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Because
this is a high school chemistry level topic and I know some of us took other
things – or as the drummer in my brothers class said, “I don’t remember
Chemistry, I was stoned that year.”<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">So
for those of you who were also stoned that year or can’t remember back that
far, here is a simple review of pH with special reference to the oceans,
CO<SUB>2</SUB> and the false, badly mis-named idea that CO<SUB>2</SUB>
‘increases the acidity of the oceans’.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">The
term pH refers to one of three distinct chemical conditions which bear no
relationship to each other. One is called acidity, another is called
alkalinity and third is ‘neutral’. Acidity and alkalinity are so different
that if equal in ‘strength’ they cancel each other completely leaving a
neutral condition. Different pH numbers refer to different
conditions.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Acid
solutions (it has to be a solution with water in it) have a chemistry that
has Hydrogen atoms stripped of their single electron. They are thus
positively changed and seeking an electron. This they will happily strip out
of anything passing by if they can find it, tearing the molecules to bits in
the process which is why acids ‘eat’ things.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Alkaline
solutions (again, involving water) have molecules that have an extra
electron available (but not Hydrogen) and are thus negatively charged. They
will give away an electron happily, often wrecking the object that receives
it which is why they eat things too but by a completely different
process.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Both
acidic and alkaline solutions can corrode things like metals and rocks. One
takes electrons and one gives them. Quote opposite. The two conditions are
so incompatible they cannot be present at the same time in a mixed solution.
It is one, the other or ‘neutral’ if neither condition is
present.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">If
you have an alkaline solution like the ocean (pH 7.8 - 8.4 depending on
where you are, the time of day and a host of other things) and you want to
neutralise it so that all its spare electrons are taken up by various
things, you would have to add something acidic. Adding CO<SUB>2</SUB> by
bubbling it through the seawater will convert some of the CO<SUB>2</SUB>
(about 1%) to carbonic acid which has a deficiency of electrons and that
acid will merge with whichever passing opportunity presents itself. The
corresponding alkaline molecule will be neutralised as its spare electron
will be passed to the carbonic acid molecule (which has an H<SUP>-</SUP> in
it) and afterwards neither will have any charge. Both will be neutralised if
the charges are balanced.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Because
this happens very quickly, you cannot actually find any carbonic acid in the
ocean. Nor any other acid. The oceans are not acidic at all. Any ocean
has quite a store of available electrons. Anything acidic you dump into the
sea is quickly neutralised and the pH drops slightly because it is closer to
a neutral condition. The oceanic capacity to hand over electrons to any
passing electron gap is very, very large. There are several processes that
would begin to offer electrons but do not because the ocean is too alkaline
to allow them to get started. The ability to do this is called the
‘buffering’ capacity. You may remember ‘Bufferin’ the pill that neutralises
stomach acid. The pill is alkaline and has a large buffering capacity so it
can hand a lot of electrons over to the acid in the stomach, thus
neutralising it. If you took a whole bottle of Bufferin pills, your stomach
would not become less and less and less acidic. It would be neutralised and
then become alkaline and remains so until the spare electrons were taken up
in a neutralising process. People are, in general, alkaline and should eat
alkaline foods to remain healthy. Excess acid is a
problem.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">By
the same measure, reducing the availability of spare electrons in the ocean
water does not <I>at all</I> make the water acidic because it still has many
more available electrons. It is less alkaline, but it is not acidic at all –
zero in the ‘acidic scale’ (there isn’t one). <U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">In
order to make a convenient metric for describing these two conditions (which
can cancel each other out very predictably) the pH scale is used. Above 7.0
the solution has available electrons and is termed alkaline. Below 7.0 is
has a deficiency of electrons and is called ‘acidic’. The reason for the use
of two different terms is they are chemically dissimilar and cannot
coexist.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Acidity
of a solution is often represented by the Hydrogen equivalent
[H<SUP>+</SUP>]<SUB>T</SUB> which is the total number of Hydrogen electrons
that would be needed to neutralise it.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Alkalinity
is often expressed in terms of its equivalence to Calcium Carbonate
CACO<SUB>3</SUB> in mg/Litre.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Q.
Can CO<SUB>2</SUB> ‘acidify’ water? <U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">A.
Yes, if the water is neutral to begin with, or already acidic, like rain
water. Because rain water is acidic, when it falls into the ocean it
neutralises the drops of seawater where it touches, before becoming diluted
again by the surrounding ocean. Rainwater does not impart to the ocean any
microscopic ability to withdraw electrons. It is quickly neutralised by some
seawater. When it is finished a few seconds later, the acid has been
destroyed.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Q.
If one bubbled CO<SUB>2 </SUB>through sea water, would it eventually become
acidic?<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">A.
Yes. If you were to first neutralise all the available electrons by mopping
them up, after that it would start to become acidic. It would not considered
be acidic at all until the whole body of the sample had first been
neutralised. These two conditions cannot co-exist.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Q.
What about ‘acid rain’. <U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">A.
All rain is acidic. It is acidic because fresh water absorbs CO2 rapidly
from the atmosphere, converting about 1% into carbonic acid. This falls into
the oceans and reacts with the available alkaline molecules. It is easy to
acidify rain. It is very difficult to neutralise the oceans because of the
rocks upon which they sit which have a huge, massive buffering capacity.
There are numerous life cycles of creatures that withdraw CO<SUB>2</SUB>,
CO3<SUP>-2</SUP> and HCO<SUB>3</SUB>- when it is available. Obviously
CACO<SUB>3</SUB> is high on the list for uptake by creatures that make
shells.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Q.
Which has a larger impact on ocean alkalinity: atmospheric CO<SUB>2</SUB> or
rain containing CO<SUB>2</SUB>?<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">A.
Not clear. Rain has a big effect because oceans actually have difficulty
picking up enough CO<SUB>2</SUB> to drive the level much above 600 ppm
because of the limited surface area compared with the volume and the huge
buffering capacity. Rain is much higher - about 1120 ppm
CO<SUB>2</SUB>. Global rainfall totals about half a million cubic kilometers
per year and contains about 600 billion tons of CO<SUB>2</SUB> which is
about 20 times <A
href="http://www.global-greenhouse-warming.com/anthropogenic-climate-change.html"
target=_blank>human</A> output. <U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Q.
What is the mass of the oceans?<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">A.
1.332 billion billion tons.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Q.
Do reputable scientific organisations refer to ‘acidifying’ the oceans even
though that is not, chemically, what it happening?<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">A.
Yes. NASA <A
href="http://www.earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/OceanCarbon/"
target=_blank>does</A>. “As we burn fossil fuels and atmospheric carbon
dioxide levels go up, the ocean absorbs more carbon dioxide to stay in
balance. But this absorption has a price: these reactions lower the water’s
pH, <SPAN style="BACKGROUND: yellow">meaning it’s more
acidic</SPAN>.”<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Q.
But it is less alkaline, not more acidic. Why do they write that when it is
untrue, in fact it is unscientific?<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">A.
I don’t think anyone knows. Perhaps they too missed Chemistry in high
school.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">+++++++<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Regards<BR>Crispin<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US>Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=EN-US>
Friday, July 26, 2013 3:25 PM<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Stoves] more on ocean
acidification<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<DIV class=im>
<P class=MsoNormal><U></U><U></U> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><A
href="http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=noaa-scientists-embark-voyage-asses-ocean-acidification"
target=_blank>http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=noaa-scientists-embark-voyage-asses-ocean-acidification</A><BR
clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Paul A. Olivier PhD<BR>26/5 Phu Dong Thien
Vuong<BR>Dalat<BR>Vietnam<BR><BR><BR><U></U><U></U></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Stoves
mailing list<BR><BR>to Send a Message to the list, use the email
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target=_blank>http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</A><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR
clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Paul A. Olivier PhD<BR>26/5 Phu Dong Thien
Vuong<BR>Dalat<BR>Vietnam<BR><BR>Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings
Vietnam)<BR>Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<BR>Skype address:
Xpolivier<BR><A href="http://www.esrla.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.esrla.com/</A> </DIV>
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