Dear Kevin,<div><br></div><div>Can you imagine a more thorough investigation than the international ISO process that is occurring? </div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br></div><div>Dean<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 7:51 PM, Kevin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net" target="_blank">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<u></u>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial">Dear Dean</font></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">
<div style="FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4"><b>From:</b>
<a title="deankstill@gmail.com" href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com" target="_blank">Dean
Still</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 09, 2013 9:15
PM</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] more on ocean
acidification</div>
<div><br></div>Dear All,
<div><br></div>
<div>I'd like to remind the List that the moderator has politely asked that we
return to the topic of stoves. </div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial"><strong># Good point! To advance "the science of stove
testing", would you be prepared to support the external review of the
various stove testing protocols by competent independant
authorities?</strong></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Best wishes,</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Kevin</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Dean<br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com" target="_blank">crispinpigott@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div lang="EN-CA" vlink="purple" link="blue">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Dear
Ron<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">I
was going to reply but after subtracting the ad homina, speculations, straw
men and loose assertions there was nothing left in the message.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">The
problem you will continue to have with me is I have read the ‘Skeptical
Science’ playbook on how to handle skeptical criticisms of AGW. It was a
document put together by the Team (as you know) and promoted to the
compliant as a way to communicate – a style, if you will – of how to handle
people who were ‘off message’. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">There
is actually a new one issued by some political group in the USA which I read
this past week. It is pages long. It includes specific instructions
for example to always mention ‘climate disruption’ as it is harder to
dispute and refute than ‘global warming’ now that there isn’t any. It
suggests ways to undermine and weaken the appeal of speakers who are
presenting contrary evidence that undermines the catastrophic side of AGW
(can’t have that). The vast majority of CAGW skeptics concede a human role
in global warming, but assert that it is tiny and to date, undetectable. The
instructions are to try to try to paint skeptics as ‘denying’ <i>all</i>
human influence on the planet then offers various pejorative comparisons
that can be made so as to cause consternation for the skeptic or those
listening to them.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">The
instructions from your buddies at SkS include always pooh-poohing the
credentials of any author cited, always trying to paint the skeptical
correspondent as ‘alone’ in their understanding, always insert some mention
of how settled things are with the ‘majority’ of ‘reputable’ scientists and
so on and on. We have seen it all before. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">You
are quite good at following the party line but it does not (at all) address
the fact that there is no such thing as ‘acidifying the ocean’ when the
number of anions is reduced through a process called neutralisation so it is
less alkaline. I will not matter if my mother ‘wears army boots’. Facts are
facts. Peer-reviewed bunk is still bunk. As you will have noticed by now I
am completely unimpressed by Letters<sup>1</sup>.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">As
the CAGW fear-mongering system falls apart country after country is bailing
out. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">As
Fred says (I cannot say it better myself): <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN">“…hundreds of billions of Euros have been squandered, wasted,
flushed down the Great Greenie Composting Toilet because Public Policy in
Europe was highjacked by a group of political power craving
environmentalists and grubby, funding desperate scientists who realized
their First Class ticket on the Fame and Gravy train could be realized by
abject fear mongering about human influences on the
climate.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN">“A disgraceful period in human history, one that will not be treated
well by future historians.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN">Think of how much human good, human happiness that money could have
purchased. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN">“Think of how much real science, not the frothed up, torqued up,
glued together hockey sticks or photo shopped polar bear pictures that
currently disgraces the scientific community could have taken place if the
science funding had not been hijacked by a small gang of morally vacuous
scientists that are only good at creating hysteria and performing
kindergarten level research.”<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<blockquote style="MARGIN-TOP:5pt;MARGIN-BOTTOM:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Kindergarten
level research. What have I been calling for over the past 6 years with
respect to stove testing? Surely everyone knows by now. I am calling
for the <i>peer review</i>, the <i>independent assessment</i> of stove
test protocols so that they are validated and the results they give can be
believed. The resistance to this at every level has been amazing and
not without consequence. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">For
one, I have learned never to trust that a spreadsheet has no errors in it.
I compliment whoever is working on the PEMS hood spreadsheet. The April
2013 version contains more than 100 fewer systematic errors that the 2010
version. But is still has not been independently
reviewed.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">WBT
4.xx has not been independently reviewed for precision, accuracy and
conceptual relevance.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Now
Ron, you have been most vociferous about how this or that aspect of
climate science information has been brought forward in articles that
‘were not peer reviewed’ even if they were true. How about giving up on
trying to humiliate and marginalise me on this list (or elsewhere – who
knows) and put your energy into demanding that the GACC, the WB, the EPA,
the Universities of Illinois, Colorado and Berkeley and anywhere else
submit their protocols to competent authorities for independent
review? Actually the WB has its project protocols reviewed…well,
they should continue to do so.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">The
stoves world is awash in bad test results and invalid claims and money
trading hands on the basis of them. We cannot change things
overnight, but by implementing this rule that you favour so highly a major
contribution to the field of domestic energy can be
attained.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">It
will not matter (here) if there is a record short summer in the <a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/08/08/according-to-this-dmi-temperature-plot-the-arctic-has-dropped-below-freezing-about-two-weeks-early/#more-91293" target="_blank">Arctic</a> or photos of stack emissions are <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NOv_4-KeeKI" target="_blank">faked</a> or SkS takes in on the chin with a Godwins Law <a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/08/07/inside-the-skeptical-science-secret-tree-house-bunker/#more-91202" target="_blank">parody</a> or even if US winter temperatures continue to <a href="http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/image15.png" target="_blank">plunge</a>. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">I
don’t like trumped up CAGW claims about what ‘it <a href="http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm" target="_blank">causes</a>’. I don’t like trumped up or trumped down stove
performance results.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Let’s
work together and bring some proper science and engineering to the planet
of stoves. I know you’ll want to help. We all do.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Thanks<br>Crispin<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><sup><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">1</span></sup><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">
</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:9pt">For
those who do not know what this means, it is English for ‘letters after
your name’ signifying formal recognition of capacity, knowledge and /or
authority. Examples are BA, P.Eng
etc.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></blockquote></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves
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