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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Dear Dean</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=deankstill@gmail.com href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com">Dean
Still</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, August 10, 2013 2:10
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] more on ocean
acidification</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Dear Kevin,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Can you imagine a more thorough investigation than the international ISO
process that is occurring? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial># Yes, I certainly can! All that the ISO Process ensures
is that a procedure is put in place to ensure that "whatever is being done
will be done consistently." If a "garbage stove testing procedure" was
submitted for ISO for ISO Approval, it could very well get ISO Approval,
and the result would be "consistent garbage stove testing
results".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial># The first sensible step is to develop a scientifically
valid testing procedure, which THEN would be submitted for ISO Approval. As
long as ISO standards and procedures were followed, such a scientifically
valid testing procedure would consistently give scientifically valid
results.</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial># So... <STRONG>would you be prepared to support
the external review of the various stove testing protocols by competent
independant authorities?</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>Best wishes,</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial>Kevin</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Best,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Dean<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 7:51 PM, Kevin <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net"
target=_blank>kchisholm@ca.inter.net</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote><U></U>
<DIV bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Dear Dean</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>From:</B> <A
title=deankstill@gmail.com href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com"
target=_blank>Dean Still</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target=_blank>Discussion of
biomass cooking stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 09, 2013 9:15
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] more on ocean
acidification</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Dear All,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I'd like to remind the List that the moderator has politely asked
that we return to the topic of stoves. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><STRONG># Good point! To advance "the science of
stove testing", would you be prepared to support the external review
of the various stove testing protocols by competent independant
authorities?</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Best wishes,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Kevin</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Best,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Dean<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott <SPAN dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com"
target=_blank>crispinpigott@gmail.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV lang=EN-CA link="blue" vlink="purple">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Dear
Ron<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I
was going to reply but after subtracting the ad homina, speculations,
straw men and loose assertions there was nothing left in the message.
<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">The
problem you will continue to have with me is I have read the ‘Skeptical
Science’ playbook on how to handle skeptical criticisms of AGW. It was a
document put together by the Team (as you know) and promoted to the
compliant as a way to communicate – a style, if you will – of how to
handle people who were ‘off message’. <U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">There
is actually a new one issued by some political group in the USA which I
read this past week. It is pages long. It includes specific
instructions for example to always mention ‘climate disruption’ as it is
harder to dispute and refute than ‘global warming’ now that there isn’t
any. It suggests ways to undermine and weaken the appeal of speakers who
are presenting contrary evidence that undermines the catastrophic side
of AGW (can’t have that). The vast majority of CAGW skeptics concede a
human role in global warming, but assert that it is tiny and to date,
undetectable. The instructions are to try to try to paint skeptics as
‘denying’ <I>all</I> human influence on the planet then offers various
pejorative comparisons that can be made so as to cause consternation for
the skeptic or those listening to them.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">The
instructions from your buddies at SkS include always pooh-poohing the
credentials of any author cited, always trying to paint the skeptical
correspondent as ‘alone’ in their understanding, always insert some
mention of how settled things are with the ‘majority’ of ‘reputable’
scientists and so on and on. We have seen it all before.
<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">You
are quite good at following the party line but it does not (at all)
address the fact that there is no such thing as ‘acidifying the ocean’
when the number of anions is reduced through a process called
neutralisation so it is less alkaline. I will not matter if my mother
‘wears army boots’. Facts are facts. Peer-reviewed bunk is still bunk.
As you will have noticed by now I am completely unimpressed by
Letters<SUP>1</SUP>.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">As
the CAGW fear-mongering system falls apart country after country is
bailing out. <U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">As
Fred says (I cannot say it better myself): <U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang=EN>“…hundreds of billions of Euros have been squandered, wasted,
flushed down the Great Greenie Composting Toilet because Public Policy
in Europe was highjacked by a group of political power craving
environmentalists and grubby, funding desperate scientists who realized
their First Class ticket on the Fame and Gravy train could be realized
by abject fear mongering about human influences on the
climate.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang=EN><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang=EN>“A disgraceful period in human history, one that will not be
treated well by future historians.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang=EN>Think of how much human good, human happiness that money could
have purchased. <U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang=EN><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang=EN>“Think of how much real science, not the frothed up, torqued up,
glued together hockey sticks or photo shopped polar bear pictures that
currently disgraces the scientific community could have taken place if
the science funding had not been hijacked by a small gang of morally
vacuous scientists that are only good at creating hysteria and
performing kindergarten level research.”<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Kindergarten
level research. What have I been calling for over the past 6 years
with respect to stove testing? Surely everyone knows by now. I
am calling for the <I>peer review</I>, the <I>independent
assessment</I> of stove test protocols so that they are validated and
the results they give can be believed. The resistance to this at
every level has been amazing and not without consequence.
<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">For
one, I have learned never to trust that a spreadsheet has no errors in
it. I compliment whoever is working on the PEMS hood spreadsheet. The
April 2013 version contains more than 100 fewer systematic errors that
the 2010 version. But is still has not been independently
reviewed.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">WBT
4.xx has not been independently reviewed for precision, accuracy and
conceptual relevance.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Now
Ron, you have been most vociferous about how this or that aspect of
climate science information has been brought forward in articles that
‘were not peer reviewed’ even if they were true. How about giving up
on trying to humiliate and marginalise me on this list (or elsewhere –
who knows) and put your energy into demanding that the GACC, the WB,
the EPA, the Universities of Illinois, Colorado and Berkeley and
anywhere else submit their protocols to competent authorities for
independent review? Actually the WB has its project protocols
reviewed…well, they should continue to do so.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">The
stoves world is awash in bad test results and invalid claims and money
trading hands on the basis of them. We cannot change
things overnight, but by implementing this rule that you favour so
highly a major contribution to the field of domestic energy can be
attained.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">It
will not matter (here) if there is a record short summer in the <A
href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/08/08/according-to-this-dmi-temperature-plot-the-arctic-has-dropped-below-freezing-about-two-weeks-early/#more-91293"
target=_blank>Arctic</A> or photos of stack emissions are <A
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NOv_4-KeeKI"
target=_blank>faked</A> or SkS takes in on the chin with a Godwins Law
<A
href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/08/07/inside-the-skeptical-science-secret-tree-house-bunker/#more-91202"
target=_blank>parody</A> or even if US winter temperatures continue to
<A
href="http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/image15.png"
target=_blank>plunge</A>. <U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I
don’t like trumped up CAGW claims about what ‘it <A
href="http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm"
target=_blank>causes</A>’. I don’t like trumped up or trumped down
stove performance results.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Let’s
work together and bring some proper science and engineering to the
planet of stoves. I know you’ll want to help. We all
do.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Thanks<BR>Crispin<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SUP><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">1</SPAN></SUP><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">
</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">For
those who do not know what this means, it is English for ‘letters
after your name’ signifying formal recognition of capacity, knowledge
and /or authority. Examples are BA, P.Eng
etc.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Stoves
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