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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dear Ron,<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>See below:<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><snip><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>All we need to do is have all start with the same Energy from a biomass and use that as a baseline when comparing stoves. Oven dry weight energy value minus the char in the pipe. When burning wet (real) biomass we just report that in the 6 Box reporting sheet so a lower (or higher if the water reaction) results can be explained. </span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <b>[RWL: I see no way testing can start with "same energy", unless this means some average energy density (such as 18 MJ/kg). But this varies with moisture content and the variation with different fuels is all over the place. I gave a cite for a paper on this last week where Tom Miles was a co-author. Huge variations and complexities.</b><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>[Frank >] I agree it should be sent to a lab with the equipment that actually measures the energy but using ‘look up’ tables is done now and is available for those not having the lab equipment. We just all need to be using the same table and make sure it closely represents the fuel we are using. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>When the fuel is wet we have all that FREE energy from the catalyst that will evaporate it IN the stove body.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <b>[RWL: Sorry. I mistrust the idea of free energy - and especially with the words "catalyst" and "evaporate in". Can you give an example or a cite?</b><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>[Frank >] Free because it’s not used in the calculations for energy efficiency. And is used as improving and controlling the pyrolysis process. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>In fact, if one puts a cup of water in a stove the evaporated steam hitting the pot will increase the water temperature in the pot. Unless the steam lowers the temperature of the secondary, or otherwise interferes with the secondary combustion,</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <b>[RWL: Both seem likely]<i><span style='color:#1F497D'>[Frank >] </span></i><span style='color:#1F497D'>Agree</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>it will add to the energy heating the water. It cost nothing to evaporate the water. </span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal> <b>[RWL: I think it WILL cost something. If not, we would see a lot more of it than we do. I know of only one stove with an added water supply - and don't think it is commercial. Anyone?</b><br><b><i><span style='color:#1F497D'>[Frank >] </span></i></b><span style='color:#1F497D'>Cost means the depletion of the energy fraction we use to calculate efficiencies. </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>As for coal: I have not thought how this would work and know little about burning coal. I would think it much like adding char to a rocket stove? There being little secondary combustion and the stove body getting very hot(?)</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <b>[RWL: Cooking with coal is a horrible idea - and China has the environment to prove it. Yes - using a rocket stove to combust char is as bad an idea as in a TLUD. Jikos aren't all that great but they are infinitely better than a rocket.<span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>[Frank >] I would like to know more about cooking with coal. I can’t even find coal around here to experiment with!<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'> </span><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>[Frank >] </span></i></b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks Ron,</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>[Frank >] <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Frank<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Frank Shields<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Control Laboratories; Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>42 Hangar Way<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Watsonville, CA 95076<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>(831) 724-5422 tel<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>(831) 724-3188 fax<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>frank@biocharlab.com<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>www.controllabs.com<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>