<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.23515">
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri"><FONT
face=Calibri><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri"><FONT
size=4 face="Times New Roman">Paul,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri">I
don’t have any new ideas about climate change other than an opinion about
cooking stoves as it relates to biochar and climate
change.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri">For
me the idea that you can change the climate, with cooking stoves, just doesn’t
seem reasonable. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri">Even
if adding the charcoal as biochar to the soil were to make a difference in
atmospheric CO2 levels, <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri">I
don’t believe anyone so poor, as to cook with wood,<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>is going to bury their charcoal, because
charcoal is worth more than wood they just gathered or paid
for.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri">If
there is any charcoal left from a fire, it can be burned along in the next
fire,<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>or can be burned in a stove
made just for charcoal .<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri">A
good flexible stove should burn either or both.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri">If
burying charcoal as biochar is to be a fix for climate change, it is going to
need to be done on an industrial scale by more affluent people, people with big
machines.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri">Since
appeal to emotion has become part of the debate, here is mine.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri">Who
are we to add this load of “carbon negativity” on to the backs of the poor with
our charcoal making but not charcoal burning stoves?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri">The
poor need stoves that can burn both wood and charcoal efficiently.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri">Lanny
Henson<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=4
face="Times New Roman"></FONT></o:p></FONT></SPAN> </P></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=paul.olivier@esrla.com href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com">Paul
Olivier</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 22, 2013 6:36
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] what causes warming
deosn't matter.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV>
<DIV>No one denies that designing stoves that impact human health in a
positive manner is important. But if we can design stoves that meet goals
relating to human health <U>and </U>the environment, then it makes sense to do
so. And it make sense to discuss the design of such stoves on this stove list.
There are broader issues involved than just human health. Let us go back to
this phrase that appears in a GACC document: tier 4 stoves "stretch goals
which achieve significant health <U>and/or </U>environmental goals." And
within the same document, under global environmental goals, mention is made of
reducing the emission of greenhouse gases. Is CO2 not a greenhouse gas? Does
it not warm our planet? Does some of it not end up in our oceans and make it
more alkaline to the extent that it harms many forms of aquatic life? The real
work on the ground is not just what happens in a kitchen. It is also what
happens when sea levels begin to rise, when one third of the Mekong lies
underwater, when oceans acidify, when shellfish die, when glaciers melt, when
polar bears no longer have a home and so forth. As we broaden our vision, we
just might end up designing much better stoves.<BR><BR></DIV>Many
thanks.<BR></DIV>Paul Olivier<BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 2:10 AM, <SPAN dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:rbtvl@aol.com" target=_blank>rbtvl@aol.com</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote><FONT color=black size=3
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
<DIV><FONT color=black size=3 face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">
<DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have been silent. but.....
It doesn't make any difference what any of us think about the source of
global warming. I happen to think humans have caused it. but so
what? What I think doesn't matter. Not in the
least. My work with the women in the field, doing the best design
and distribution work we can do, saving them three afternoons of menial wood
gathering labor every week, getting the smoke out of their houses,
preserving for a while their disappearing forests, doesn't depend in any way
on whether I think it is getting warmer because of a century of
industrialization in the northern hemisphere, or because of some
other reason. We design for less fuel burned, for less
emissions of all kinds inside and outside, especially where people are
breathing, don't we?. My analysis of the impact of the industrial
revolution is hardly relevant.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>back to work. come on!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>bob</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Robert V. Lange</DIV>
<DIV>Maasai Stoves and Solar</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></FONT></DIV></DIV></FONT><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Stoves
mailing list<BR><BR>to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<BR><A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR><BR>to
UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<BR><A
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</A><BR><BR>for
more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
site:<BR><A href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/"
target=_blank>http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</A><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR
clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Paul A. Olivier PhD<BR>26/5 Phu Dong Thien
Vuong<BR>Dalat<BR>Vietnam<BR><BR>Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings
Vietnam)<BR>Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<BR>Skype address:
Xpolivier<BR><A href="http://www.esrla.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.esrla.com/</A> </DIV>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Stoves mailing
list<BR><BR>to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<BR>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<BR><BR>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change
your List Settings use the web
page<BR>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<BR><BR>for
more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
site:<BR>http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>