<div dir="ltr">See comments below.<br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Lanny Henson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lannych@bellsouth.net" target="_blank">lannych@bellsouth.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
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<p style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="font-size:14pt"><font face="Times New Roman" size="4">Paul,</font></span></p>
<p style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="font-size:14pt">I
don’t have any new ideas about climate change other than an opinion about
cooking stoves as it relates to biochar and climate
change.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="font-size:14pt">For
me the idea that you can change the climate, with cooking stoves, just doesn’t
seem reasonable. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="font-size:14pt">Even
if adding the charcoal as biochar to the soil were to make a difference in
atmospheric CO2 levels, <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="font-size:14pt">I
don’t believe anyone so poor, as to cook with wood,<span> </span>is going to bury their charcoal, because
charcoal is worth more than wood they just gathered or paid
for.</span></p></font></span></font></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Here in Vietnam, rice hulls are abundant and cheap. If someone puts them in a gasifier stove, she gets a high-grade heat that can boil 5 liters of water in 12 minutes. After that, the biochar where I live can be sold to greenhouses at a relatively high price. The sale of the biochar easily covers the cost of the original rice hulls. It even covers the cost of the more expensive rice hull pellet. Three tons of rice hull pellets (total cost of these 3 tons is $228) can produce one ton of pelleted biochar worth $400. So gas is produced at a negative cost. When the rice hull biochar is put in the soil, it makes plants grow faster, and it reduces fertilizer and water use. But best of all it locks CO2 in the soil for thousands of years.<br>
</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#ffffff"><div><font size="4"><span style="font-size:14pt"><font face="Calibri"><p style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 0pt" class="">
<span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="font-size:14pt">If
there is any charcoal left from a fire, it can be burned along in the next
fire,<span> </span>or can be burned in a stove
made just for charcoal .</span></p></font></span></font></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Why burn biochar when there is so much agricultural and forestry waste that gets uselessly burned? The burning of rice hulls, rice straw and forest debris is a huge environmental problem in Vietnam. Let us gasify all of this waste, and return the biochar to the rice paddy and to the forests to enrich the soil. Rice hull biochar can increase the yield of rice in some places by as much as 3 times.<br>
</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#ffffff"><div><font size="4"><span style="font-size:14pt"><font face="Calibri"><p style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 0pt" class="">
<span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="font-size:14pt">A
good flexible stove should burn either or both.</span><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman','serif';font-size:12pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="font-size:14pt">If
burying charcoal as biochar is to be a fix for climate change, it is going to
need to be done on an industrial scale by more affluent people, people with big
machines.</span></p></font></span></font></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I believe that it should be kept small-scale. Biochar merchants could supply raw pellets to households free-of-charge in exchange for an equal volume of biochar pellets. Almost everything in a country such as Vietnam is small-scale, and I strongly believe that it should remain so. The average rice farmer has less than one hectare of land. The average pig farmer in Vietnam has less than ten pigs. It would be ashamed to industrialize agriculture, as we see in Europe and America. I am a big believer in all that is small-scale, local and intensive: <br>
<a href="https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Paper/Summaries/Food%20Crisis.pdf">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Paper/Summaries/Food%20Crisis.pdf</a><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff"><div><font size="4"><span style="font-size:14pt"><font face="Calibri"><p style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="font-size:14pt">Since
appeal to emotion has become part of the debate, here is mine.</span><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman','serif';font-size:12pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 0pt" class=""><b><span style="font-size:14pt">Who
are we to add this load of “carbon negativity” on to the backs of the poor with
our charcoal making but not charcoal burning stoves?</span></b></p></font></span></font></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Here in a country such as Vietnam, a carbon-negative stove can make money for the cook each time it is used: through the sale of biochar.<br>
<br></div><div>Thanks.<br></div><div>Paul Olivier<br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#ffffff"><div><font size="4"><span style="font-size:14pt"><font face="Calibri"><p style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 0pt" class="">
<b><span style="font-size:14pt"><u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="font-size:14pt">The
poor need stoves that can burn both wood and charcoal efficiently.</span><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman','serif';font-size:12pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="font-size:14pt">Lanny
Henson<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="line-height:normal;margin:0in 0in 0pt" class=""><font face="Times New Roman" size="4"></font><u></u></p></font></span> </font></div>
<div>----- Original Message ----- </div>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid rgb(0,0,0);padding-left:5px;padding-right:0px;margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px">
<div style="font:10pt arial;background:none repeat scroll 0% 0% rgb(228,228,228)"><b>From:</b>
<a title="paul.olivier@esrla.com" href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">Paul
Olivier</a> </div>
<div style="font:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</a> </div>
<div style="font:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 22, 2013 6:36
PM</div>
<div style="font:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] what causes warming
deosn't matter.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>No one denies that designing stoves that impact human health in a
positive manner is important. But if we can design stoves that meet goals
relating to human health <u>and </u>the environment, then it makes sense to do
so. And it make sense to discuss the design of such stoves on this stove list.
There are broader issues involved than just human health. Let us go back to
this phrase that appears in a GACC document: tier 4 stoves "stretch goals
which achieve significant health <u>and/or </u>environmental goals." And
within the same document, under global environmental goals, mention is made of
reducing the emission of greenhouse gases. Is CO2 not a greenhouse gas? Does
it not warm our planet? Does some of it not end up in our oceans and make it
more alkaline to the extent that it harms many forms of aquatic life? The real
work on the ground is not just what happens in a kitchen. It is also what
happens when sea levels begin to rise, when one third of the Mekong lies
underwater, when oceans acidify, when shellfish die, when glaciers melt, when
polar bears no longer have a home and so forth. As we broaden our vision, we
just might end up designing much better stoves.<br><br></div>Many
thanks.<br></div>Paul Olivier<br></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 2:10 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rbtvl@aol.com" target="_blank">rbtvl@aol.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><font color="black" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3">
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt">
<div><font color="black" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3">
<div><font style="background-color:transparent" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have been silent. but.....
It doesn't make any difference what any of us think about the source of
global warming. I happen to think humans have caused it. but so
what? What I think doesn't matter. Not in the
least. My work with the women in the field, doing the best design
and distribution work we can do, saving them three afternoons of menial wood
gathering labor every week, getting the smoke out of their houses,
preserving for a while their disappearing forests, doesn't depend in any way
on whether I think it is getting warmer because of a century of
industrialization in the northern hemisphere, or because of some
other reason. We design for less fuel burned, for less
emissions of all kinds inside and outside, especially where people are
breathing, don't we?. My analysis of the impact of the industrial
revolution is hardly relevant.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div>back to work. come on!</div>
<div> </div>
<div>bob</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Robert V. Lange</div>
<div>Maasai Stoves and Solar</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong<br>Dalat<br>Vietnam<br>
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