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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Stovers,<br>
<br>
1. Let's have Subject lines that tell what is being discussed,
please. (we are no longer discussing Rebecca's stove in these
messages.)<br>
<br>
2. There are several documents about the TChar concept and
implementation. see <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com/tag/TChar">www.drtlud.com/tag/TChar</a><br>
<br>
3. Efficiencies are similar to each of the two stages of
operation:<br>
A. During the TLUD (migratory pyrolytic front) operation,
the results for efficiency and emissions are much like for the
Champion, Mwoto, and Quad TLUD stoves. (see note below)<br>
B. During the charcoal burning stage, the results are
mainly like those of whatever charcoal stove is the base of the
TChar combined unit.<br>
<br>
4. A serious difficulty with the TChar functional unit is the
generally POOR ability of the charcoal stove to restrict the
incoming primary air. That means that the TLUD top is operating
at HIGH-heat levels, and turn down is difficult. BUT, when the
charcoal is in the charcoal stoves in the second stage, that is
generally a very nice LOW-heat. <br>
<br>
Remember that TLUD stoves are mainly AIR controlled, so air
leakages can be important.<br>
<br>
TChar stoves should be a joint effort between those who make
charcoal stoves and those who make TLUDs. <br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 9/4/2013 12:49 PM, Lloyd Helferty wrote:<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Crispin,<br>
<br>
Someone <i>does</i> have "<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">a
[TLUD] stove that can use the fuel remaining</span>" -- but <i>also</i>
makes biochar. It's called a "T-Char" stove:<br>
<br>
<img src="cid:part1.00070100.06070504@ilstu.edu" alt=""
width="364" height="157"><br>
<br>
... and it is up the "user" to decide whether to keep the char
(for the soil) or "burn it down to ash".<br>
<br>
I can't comment on the overall "Efficiency" of the device (or
its derivatives), however.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72"> Lloyd Helferty, Engineering Technologist
Principal, Biochar Consulting (Canada)
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.biochar-consulting.ca">www.biochar-consulting.ca</a>
48 Suncrest Blvd, Thornhill, ON, Canada
905-707-8754
CELL: 647-886-8754
Skype: lloyd.helferty
Steering Committee coordinator
Canadian Biochar Initiative (CBI)
President, Co-founder & CBI Liaison, Biochar-Ontario
National Office, Canadian Carbon Farming Initiative (CCFI)
Come learn about biochar in October:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.carbon-negative.us/symposium">www.carbon-negative.us/symposium</a>
Member of the Don Watershed Regeneration Council (DWRC)
Manager, Biochar Offsets Group:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=2446475">http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=2446475</a>
Advisory Committee Member, IBI
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1404717">http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1404717</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42237506675">http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42237506675</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://groups.google.com/group/biochar-ontario">http://groups.google.com/group/biochar-ontario</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.meetup.com/biocharontario/">http://www.meetup.com/biocharontario/</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.biocharontario.ca">http://www.biocharontario.ca</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.biochar.ca">www.biochar.ca</a>
"Technology is only a tool. Sustainability is determined not by the the individual technologies, but rather how -- and even whether -- we decide to use them."
- Lloyd Helferty</pre>
On 2013-09-04 12:27 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dear
Ron<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I
am not sure why you use the word ‘rebuttal’. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">></span>
a. I am going to wait for release of the 72 slides from
the EPA webinar to answer much of this<span
style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
think that is a good idea.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">></span>
- since I am mostly trying to defend the material there,
which is at great odds with Crispin's approach (which I
still do not understand)<span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">With
respect to the issue of fuel remaining after a test, we
are in agreement. The slides may explain it to your
satisfaction.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">></span>
b. I note that Crispin did not rebuttals one of my
points, <span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Rebut??<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> [RWL4: In the first sentence,
assuming that Crispin's "cannot" includes "is not
designed to", I would interchange the terms "under" and
"over". This is getting back to the issue of apples and
oranges - where I believe there is some validity in adding
them - if/when one is consciously attempting to maximize
both, they are expressed in the same (energy) units, and
are calculated with equivalent formulae. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Both
what? The apples are <b>stoves that can burn the
remaining fuel</b>. The oranges are stoves that
cannot.<big><b> If someone has a stove that can use the
fuel remaining</b></big> and chooses not to, that is
a feature of the user, not the stove and does not affect
the rating given to the stove. We don’t rate what people
do.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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