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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>Dear Crispin,<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>See below:<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'><snip><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>What exactly is the problem that you see that requires a (very) different type of solution? </span><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><i><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>[Frank >] Is that the variables are so many and such that getting accurate, repeatable results difficult. And the only time we know what the accurate energy value of a fuel is is before we use it. Once it had gone through any heating process the only way to know the energy of that left over fuel remaining is to determine moisture, then dry and grind and test for energy. So I suggest energy is only determined on the fuel as being used. Left over is discarded resulting in lower efficiency or used in the next run reporting higher efficiency or averaged to report what’s expected. We need a simple method using lab equipment that can be calibrated and common around the world. Like TGA (or pipe) and calorimeter (or calculating from COHNS, ash). <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The proposal is, ultimately, mass-based. Mass-based calculations of fuel energy are plagued with problems because while you can get an answer for one type of wood (with a certain error bar) as soon as you move to another fuel like palm leaves or shells or rice hull then comparisons are not fair.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><i><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>[Frank >] That’s why you need to report in Box 1 (6 box system) a description of the fuel used including moisture, shape, type etc. That because that variable needs to be controlled and sometimes just describing it is the only way. I suspect a stove will operate differently with fuels of the same energy value but having different shapes or amount of lignin or carbon densities etc. So many variables in fuel make-up we just describe what we use and the E450c value. We then have a collection of stoves that are tested using the fuel of choice at a location to see how well they do. Not usable data for another location using a different fuel. </span></i></b><b><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So perhaps the reason why stoves that make charcoal need special treatment should be clarified. All biomass stoves make some char and there are fair methods of dealing with it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><i><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>[Frank >] Charcoal stove are treated no differently than rocket stoves. Like rocket stoves that also have a secondary burner to do the task we just use the Shields450c as the amount of energy used. I am not sure about coal or charcoal fueled stoves because they have no secondary (?) and I have no idea how they work. </span></i></b><b><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I suspect the root question being asked is ‘What is the heat transfer efficiency?”<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><i><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>[Frank >] The root question is How much energy did we use for the task(s). And the energy value can be re-calculated to how many trees used, how many trips to collect biomass etc. </span></i></b><b><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If you want to know that, then there are ways to find out.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><i><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>[Frank >] Heat transfer, soot produced, particles, safety etc. are all completely separate tests. </span></i></b><b><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If you want to know how much fuel a stove consumes, either in mass of energy, there are also ways, and it gives an answer different answer from the heat transfer efficiency question.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><i><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>[Frank >] Perhaps I am confused by what you mean ‘Heat Transfer Efficiency’. I see the question is (Energy used) by (heat that made it through the Cooking Utensil and into the water) for the WBT. The problem is Energy Used. A method of taking the ((energy IN) – (the energy OUT) = (energy used)) is valid BUT the procedure is a nightmare and prone to so much error. And then get different labs to get the same values…. Somehow we need to improve on this and that is what I am trying to come up with. </span></i></b><b><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Calculating the mass of dry fuel equivalent that is the equivalent of the energy used to cook is not helpful. We already would know the energy involved. Dividing by the energy in that type of fuel just renders the final number incomparable with stoves that use another fuel. </span><b><i><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>[Frank >] </span></i></b><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'> Agree </span><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Leave it is Joules.</span><b><i><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>[Frank >] </span></i></b><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'> The Shields450c is reported in Joules. Total energy of the fuel – energy of the char remaining at E450c in nitrogen. Using this percentage of the fuel used and amount of fuel used we know the E450c energy used for the task when the secondary flame goes out. </span><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Is the intention to find the heat transfer efficiency?</span><b><i><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>[Frank >] ?</span></i></b><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'> </span><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks<br>Crispin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><i><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>[Frank >] Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>[Frank >] </span></i></b><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>Frank Shields<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>Control Laboratories; Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>42 Hangar Way<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>Watsonville, CA 95076<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>(831) 724-5422 tel<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>(831) 724-3188 fax<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>frank@biocharlab.com<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'>www.controllabs.com<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#993366'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p></div></body></html>