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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=kchisholm-inter@uniserve.com
href="mailto:kchisholm-inter@uniserve.com">Kevin</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 24, 2013 12:42 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] Shields E450c as a way to test char-making
stoves(attn: GACC testers)</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Dear Ron</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Do you believe that wood burning stoves will be rated for
fuel consumption, but that "char making stoves" will be rated for </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>fuel consumption minus the energy remaining in the
char?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Kevin</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=rongretlarson@comcast.net
href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">Ronal W. Larson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=crispinpigott@gmail.com
href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com">Crispin Pemberton-Pigott</A> ; <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 23, 2013 2:16
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] Shields E450c as a
way to test char-making stoves(attn: GACC testers)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Crispin cc stoves</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV> Fine.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Ron</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Oct 23, 2013, at 11:10 AM, <A
href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com">crispinpigott@gmail.com</A>
wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)"
data-blackberry-caret-color="#00a8df">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); WIDTH: 100%; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">Dear
Ron</DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); WIDTH: 100%; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); WIDTH: 100%; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); WIDTH: 100%; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">We'll
at least this time you are not putting words in my mouth, you are just
misunderstanding what I write and as far as I see, deliberately
so. </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); WIDTH: 100%; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); WIDTH: 100%; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">If
you have no more questions I will be happy to move on. </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); WIDTH: 100%; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); WIDTH: 100%; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">Regards </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); WIDTH: 100%; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">Crispin
</DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); WIDTH: 100%; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">>>Q10>>></DIV>
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id=_persistentHeader>
<DIV><B>From: </B>Ronal W. Larson</DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent: </B>Wednesday, October 23, 2013 12:47</DIV>
<DIV><B>To: </B>Crispin Pemberton-Pigott; Discussion of biomass</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject: </B>Re: [Stoves] Shields E450c as a way to test
char-making stoves (attn:<BR>GACC
testers)</DIV></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; BORDER-TOP: rgb(186,188,209) 1pt solid"></DIV><BR>
<DIV id=_originalContent><BASE href="x-msg://10535/">
<DIV>Crispin and list</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>#1. You have added only extraneous material re naming, China,
kilns. You did not at all address the issue of treating char-making
stoves fairly.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>#a. Same response. You did not address the topic of
differentiating between char-making stoves. Apparently you are happy
that your money making stove in Indonesia will receive a report that says
nothing about the char produced?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>#b1 Same response. You have a typo "<SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I>for
a that stove</I>" </SPAN>that precludes a definitive answer
since I don't know whether to strike "a" or "the". I continue to
believe that the present approach being used by Jim reports everything you
ask for - and always has. The only new material I know about I am
delighted with - the amount of char and the energy in the char is
specifically now provided. It was always there, but hidden.
Char-making stove people couldn't be happier with this small change in
reported results.</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>#b2 -i You write about the formula A/(B-C):
"... <SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">it
has been misleading people ever since it was introduced"</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> I agree. - but for opposite reasons
than you. It undervalues the production of char. I am willing
to let it ride, since my preference is also being shown.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV> - ii You write: "<SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I> </I></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I>Char?
Fine, if it too can be burned as fuel. If it is not usable, it is not fuel.
Same as ash as far as that stove is concerned."
</I></SPAN>I am sorry that you don't see how unfair
this statement is to char-making stoves -- where people (including you) can
make money on the char - whether used as fuel or put in the ground.
You are taking income away from the poorest with your stance.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> - iii Your last sentences: <SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I>The
WBT was changed and that was the major point of Jim’s recent webinar to
which you posed a number of questions and which he answered
repeatedly. </I></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">
</SPAN>[RWL: And I was happy with all the answers.]</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I>I
am again answering that same question. </I></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">
</SPAN><I
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </I><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN>[RWL:
With answers different from Jim's]</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I>The
fuel consumption considers whether or not the remaining fuel is fuel for
that same stove. If it is not, it shall be considered
consumed.</I></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">
</SPAN><I
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </I><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN>[RWL:
You are (I think) the only one saying this should be the rule.
Certainly no-one who thinks making char in a stove is better
economically and environmentally - regardless of where it ends up. Of
course for climate reasons I want it to go in the ground, but I
started on this topic in the early 1990s just to save trees.
Char-making stoves can do both, but since char-makig stoves are more
efficient and cleaner, char-using stoves are on their way out.</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV lang=EN-CA link="blue" vlink="purple">
<DIV style="page: WordSection1" class=WordSection1>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">End
of short story. Take it up with Jim if you do not agree with this
reality.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN>[RWL:
I see no need to. I think Jim is handling "reality" correctly
and has already said so on this list several times.]
<DIV>
<DIV lang=EN-CA link="blue" vlink="purple">
<DIV style="page: WordSection1" class=WordSection1>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><BR></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Oct 22, 2013, at 5:56 PM, "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <<A
href="mailto:crispinpigott@gmail.com">crispinpigott@gmail.com</A>>
wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV
style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; FONT: medium Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"
lang=EN-CA link="blue" vlink="purple">
<DIV style="page: WordSection1" class=WordSection1>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Dear
Ron<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">></SPAN>Crispin
and stoves list (again ignored - why?)<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="TEXT-INDENT: -18pt; MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt 36pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN>1.<SPAN
style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> <SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>The "game" I
am playing is to ensure that charcoal-making stoves are treated fairly.
Saying that existing char at the end of a run has been "consumed" is
not fair.<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">How
do you suggest we term the fuel that enters a stove once, each time the
stove is operated through a burning cycle? Should that be the fuel
consumed? The fuel needed per cycle? The fuel use? The fuel demand? Give
it a name and let’s see how it flies.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">We
are speaking of course of raw biomass in this case. Whatever biomass goes
into a stove, per cycle, drawn from the available supply, and which needs
to be drawn again the next time, needs a name.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">In
the strict sense of the word ‘consumed’ it has been consumed as far as
that stove is concerned. In another sense, from an outside perspective
which can see additional uses for that remainder, whether it be ashes or
char, it has ‘produced something’. No problem. One can view it that way,
but it will not change the raw fuel demand for a new cycle unless some of
it is fuel to that same stove. There is no other practical way to
communicate to people the amount of fuel a stove requires to be harvested
and provided each day.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">In
China they have a test that runs for a month. A stove is installed and
cooked upon each day for a month. The amount of fuel it consumes during
that month is calculated. Then they know what the fuel consumption really
is. If there is a huge pile of char left afterwards, they do not consider
that an ‘efficiency’. I can’t say I am surprised.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">If
you are in the char making business, you still have to consider how many
cubic metres of trees are needed each day. That is the raw fuel
consumption of the char making kiln. The char produced is not a raw fuel
efficiency, it is the output efficiency of the char making process. No
problem.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">We
both owe a duty of care to the people buying and promoting stoves to
correctly report the amount of biomass that is needed to fuel the stove
per cycle or per day or per month.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">2.
Under a) - I repeat my original claim - you have no test in mind
that will differentiate between char-making stoves. If char is
there, it has not been "consumed".<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Well
you can read the above again if you like. If there is char remaining<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>that is not fuel for the stove
from which it came</I>, it comes from fuel which the stove consumed. Word
it as you like. I thought you would be asking for a report on the char
production efficiency with a rating on the energy content per kg and the %
volatiles. That would make sense if you wanted to sell it for income. I am
hoping to do exactly that in an area of Indonesia where there are many
candle nut shells. It makes really good charcoal fuel when burned in a
TLUD which people can sell for income.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">When
assessing the fuel consumption of the TLUD that makes that char, we will
get the mass of fuel consumed per cycle, the energy content and rate it
accordingly. Another stove that burns the same fuel and cooks the same
amount and produces no char will consume a lot less raw material. All we
are doing is reporting how much the stove consume per
cycle.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">3.
Under b) - The key sentences are your final two:
<I> </I><I><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">The
direct cause is that the more char produced, the less fuel was claimed to
have been consumed, which is clearly untrue. That is why the WBT was
changed." </SPAN></I>If char exists, the claim
of less fuel is "clearly true", not "<I>clearly untrue". <SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></I></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">My
claim is related to the amount of raw biomass needed to be put into the
stove each time it is used. Your claim is to view the char remaining as
fuel. This may or may not be true for a particular stove. If that char is
fuel for a that stove, then the char can be credited as unburned fuel. The
point is to tell the prospective buyer what the raw fuel consumption
is.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Further,
the use of the formula A/(B-C) goes back at least to VITA days and
is in there today. On this main point under dispute, the WBT was
NOT changed (thank goodness). Or if I am wrong, please give a
cite.<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Yes
it does go back that far and it has been misleading people ever since it
was introduced. It was written on the basis that the desired
measurement was<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>not</I><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>the raw fuel consumed each cycle,
but the efficiency with which the heat was developed in the fire and
transferred to the pot. That is why it was called (in those tests) the
‘heat transfer efficiency’. It isn’t really the heat transfer
efficiency, but it was given that name. The heat transfer efficiency is a
useful number for stove designers. When making changes like pot to stove
clearance the number will change. But it is not and never was the fuel
consumption figure, even for the fry fuel consumption, because the
consumption depends on what happens to the fuel remaining. If it is long
sticks that can be burned tomorrow, fine, it is unburned fuel. Char? Fine,
if it too can be burned as fuel. If it is not usable, it is not fuel. Same
as ash as far as that stove is concerned.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">The
WBT was changed and that was the major point of Jim’s recent webinar to
which you posed a number of questions and which he answered repeatedly. I
am again answering that same question. The fuel consumption considers
whether or not the remaining fuel is fuel for that same stove. If it is
not, it shall be considered consumed.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">End
of short story. Take it up with Jim if you do not agree with this
reality.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Regards<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Crispin<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<P
style="MARGIN: 0mm 0mm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR><!--end of _originalContent --></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>
<P>
<HR>
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