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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#003300'>Paul and all,<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#003300'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#003300'><snip><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>One comment now: The special starter needs to be in some appropriate contact with the fuel. Under piles of sticks (tinder, etc) in a stick-fire could work fine. On top of a pile of fuel in a TLUD can be great, but needs some additional comments. <br><br>Probably should have a small amount of the raw fuel mixed in or on top of the starter? This works well with pellet fuels and other fuels that have sufficiently small size to fill in any voids between the fuel pieces. However.......<br><br>Be careful of gaps between pieces of larger fuel such as vertical sticks or corn cobs, because the starter could fall down and the ignite the raw fuel too far down in the fuel bed.<br><br><br><span style='color:#003300'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#003300'>[Frank >] Paul – of all the people on this list you would know best. If well running stoves produce little particular matter and most is produced when starting, is that PM produced when starting still enough to create problems needed to be dealt with? Perhaps not. But if it is……<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#003300'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#003300'>My multi-fuel camp stoves lights with no smoke. You use alcohol to start your TLUD and, I think, promote that starting method using alcohol for the stoves you sell. It seems a matter of seamlessly transition from an alcohol burner to wood gas burner where no smoke is produced -is the goal. Perhaps an iris lens structure that starts closed burning alcohol then is opened as wood gas and increased gas volume is added to the secondary. As for the char; I know much less butane is adsorbed when the temperature of the char is high so am thinking gas will be released when loaded char is re-heated. Much research needed if this is a necessary goal. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#003300'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#003300'>I am not really saying anything – just thinking how one might lower PM during Start –IF- that is really needed. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#003300'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#003300'>I will not be at ETHOS and suddenly becoming real busy and might not make Aprovacho. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#003300'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#003300'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#003300'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#003300'>Frank<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#003300'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#003300'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#003300'> <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#003300'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#003300'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#003300'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#003300'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#003300'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#003300'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#003300'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#003300'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p><p class=MsoNormal>Note: Presented months ago, but not widely discussed, is the use of Regular char (not the starter stuff) to fill in the gaps when using larger pieces of fuel. I have tried that several times, always with reasonable success. The char-as-filler is essentially "inert" as the pyrolysis front of the TLUD passes downward, creating more char (and leaving the filler char re-heated but probably not modified). (no char is lost in this re-use of the previously created char.).<br><br>Frank, see you at ETHOS and after !!!!!!!!<br><br>Paul<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=MsoNormal>On 1/2/2014 3:56 PM, Frank Shields wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>Dear All,</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>It seems most stoves work very cleanly once started. It’s the starting that produces the most particular matter and poor combustion and the part of the process that needs improving upon. </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>I think that means when we light the match we need a fast, hot flame produced from a well-mixed gas in the exact ratio for combustion and next to a material that burns hot. </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>I do not understand this process (cannot visualize it) but activated carbon has a butane activity of ~30 g per 100 grams carbon. A good Biochar has around 10g/100grams. 30g butane = ~12 liters gas and 10g = ~4 liters gas all ‘packed’ into a cup of char. And char burns very hot. So wondering if loaded char could be used as a fire starter? So one can squeeze 12 liters butane gas into a cup of Biochar (?!?!!) using no pressure etc. </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>Char having high activation (> 10) I have loaded with gasoline and have a tank of methane ready for testing when I get the time. </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>The next improvement might be a better way to light the stove. I was thinking a Wile E. Coyote mechanical detonator where one pushes a plunger that creates a spark within the packed fuel to ignite something (loaded char?). </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wpcJX2WqAXo/S06hLGzpHgI/AAAAAAAAAJY/t-fip6bv-nI/s400/coyote-6.jpg"><span style='color:windowtext'>http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wpcJX2WqAXo/S06hLGzpHgI/AAAAAAAAAJY/t-fip6bv-nI/s400/coyote-6.jpg</span></a></span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'><a href="http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=780.0"><span style='color:windowtext'>http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=780.0</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>I plan to bring some high activity biochar loaded with a couple things to Aprovacho (after Ethos) and hope we have the time to experiment with using it for igniting fuel. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>Frank</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>Frank Shields</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>Control Laboratories; Inc.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>42 Hangar Way</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>Watsonville, CA 95076</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>(831) 724-5422 tel</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>(831) 724-3188 fax</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'><a href="mailto:frank@biocharlab.com"><span style='color:windowtext'>frank@biocharlab.com</span></a></span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'><a href="http://www.controllabs.com"><span style='color:windowtext'>www.controllabs.com</span></a></span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Stoves mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>