<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Paal, <div> Thats a nice technical delineation of a good planning process. We have also found it effective to include more contextual questions for not only the present conditions but the forecasted future conditions as well, such as;</div><div>• what are the alternatives to stoves i any, both (again) present and forseen. Is Global Oil going to introduce free gas (for a while at least), Is the local power utility expanding its electric lines ? Is Save the World International out there planning a biogas project..? Is there a planned woodlot with Dependency International inc.?</div><div>• what are the policies, condusive to, or inhibiting your intended project. Is the local government concerned about deforrestation (Incentives/laws/ implementation) ? all in the present and all as forecasted to at least the working future of your project. </div><div>• Who in the long run will really own the project?: Who controls production distribution and how are they integrated to their community . If it is to be a "deliverable" with quantitative objectives and verifiable outomes, how actually are you planning for integration to local realties, local takeover, local responsibility with localised incentives and if so, who puts what into the game, at what risk and who gets what out with what reward ? <br><div><br></div><div>Finally, </div><div>If there are any red flags in the above, how will you work WITH them to mutual benefit if at all possible or, if impossible, how will you avoid, or less kindly, possibly encapsulate them in your efforts…?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>We have been at it 16 years + now and still bat only 60 to 70% but it was one heck of a lot less successful before we started asking these kinds of questions as well..</div><div><br></div><div>Hopefully this adds a few bits to consider for our fello stovers and "biofueler" success in 2014.</div><div><br></div><div>Richard Stanley</div><div><a href="http://www.legacyfound.org">www.legacyfound.org</a></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><br><div><div>On Jan 9, 2014, at 12:59 AM, Paal Wendelbo wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000"><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Dear
Paul A</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">A <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">decentralized stove project</b> has a
motto:</font></span></p><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 36pt; line-height: 13pt; text-indent: -18pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us; mso-bidi-font-family: calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin"><span style="mso-list: ignore"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">1.</font><span style="FONT-FAMILY: ; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><font face="Times New Roman"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt">
</font></font></span></span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Environment and
health improvement </font></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 36pt; line-height: 13pt; text-indent: -18pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us; mso-bidi-font-family: calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin"><span style="mso-list: ignore"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">2.</font><span style="FONT-FAMILY: ; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><font face="Times New Roman"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt">
</font></font></span></span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Save the forest
</font></span></div><p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt 36pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt; TEXT-INDENT: -18pt; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo1"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us; mso-bidi-font-family: calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin"><span style="mso-list: ignore"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">3.</font><span style="FONT-FAMILY: ; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><font face="Times New Roman"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt">
</font></font></span></span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Creating
jobs.</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">And
start like this at a certain location:</font></span></p><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 36pt; line-height: 13pt; text-indent: -18pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us; mso-bidi-font-family: calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin"><span style="mso-list: ignore"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">1.</font><span style="FONT-FAMILY: ; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><font face="Times New Roman"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt">
</font></font></span></span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Registration of
local resources of actual types of fuel and manpower.</font></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 36pt; line-height: 13pt; text-indent: -18pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us; mso-bidi-font-family: calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin"><span style="mso-list: ignore"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">2.</font><span style="FONT-FAMILY: ; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><font face="Times New Roman"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt">
</font></font></span></span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Public discussion
by involved parties. Why changes is needed. Winners and
losers?</font></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 36pt; line-height: 13pt; text-indent: -18pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us; mso-bidi-font-family: calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin"><span style="mso-list: ignore"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">3.</font><span style="FONT-FAMILY: ; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><font face="Times New Roman"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt">
</font></font></span></span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Demonstration of
different stoves and different types of fuel.</font></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 36pt; line-height: 13pt; text-indent: -18pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us; mso-bidi-font-family: calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin"><span style="mso-list: ignore"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">4.</font><span style="FONT-FAMILY: ; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><font face="Times New Roman"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt">
</font></font></span></span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Type of fuel to
be used</font></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 36pt; line-height: 13pt; text-indent: -18pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us; mso-bidi-font-family: calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin"><span style="mso-list: ignore"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">5.</font><span style="FONT-FAMILY: ; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><font face="Times New Roman"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt">
</font></font></span></span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Type of stoves to
be used</font></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 36pt; line-height: 13pt; text-indent: -18pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us; mso-bidi-font-family: calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin"><span style="mso-list: ignore"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">6.</font><span style="FONT-FAMILY: ; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><font face="Times New Roman"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt">
</font></font></span></span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Production of
fuel and production of stoves. What can be produced locally?</font></span></div><p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt 36pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt; TEXT-INDENT: -18pt; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us; mso-bidi-font-family: calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin"><span style="mso-list: ignore"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">7.</font><span style="FONT-FAMILY: ; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><font face="Times New Roman"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt">
</font></font></span></span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Prices of fuel
and prices of stoves. Finance and sales. </font><span style="mso-spacerun: yes"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </font></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">A <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">centralized stove project</b> has a
motto:</font></span></p><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; line-height: 13pt; text-indent: 21.3pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us; mso-bidi-font-family: calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin"><span style="mso-list: ignore"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">1.</font><span style="FONT-FAMILY: ; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><font face="Times New Roman"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt">
</font></font></span></span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Profit for
producers of fuel and stoves.</font></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; line-height: 13pt; text-indent: 21.3pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us; mso-bidi-font-family: calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin"><span style="mso-list: ignore"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">2.</font><span style="FONT-FAMILY: ; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><font face="Times New Roman"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt">
</font></font></span></span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Environment and
health improvement if possible.</font></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0cm; line-height: 13pt; text-indent: 21.3pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us; mso-bidi-font-family: calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin"><span style="mso-list: ignore"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">3.</font><span style="FONT-FAMILY: ; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><font face="Times New Roman"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt">
</font></font></span></span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Marketing of nice
products</font></span></div><p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt; TEXT-INDENT: 21.3pt; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo3; mso-add-space: auto"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us; mso-bidi-font-family: calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin"><span style="mso-list: ignore"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">4.</font><span style="FONT-FAMILY: ; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><font face="Times New Roman"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt">
</font></font></span></span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Subsidizing and
loan.</font></span></p><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 10pt; margin-left: 0cm; line-height: 13pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language: en-us"><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></font></span> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
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<div style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<div style="font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a title="psanders@ilstu.edu" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">Paul Anderson</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 08, 2014 10:32 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="ethos@vrac.iastate.edu" href="mailto:ethos@vrac.iastate.edu">ethos@vrac.iastate.edu</a> ; <a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</a> ; <a title="dontcallmered@gmail.com" href="mailto:dontcallmered@gmail.com">ted redelmeier</a> ; <a title="mcntrff@gmail.com" href="mailto:mcntrff@gmail.com">David McInturff -
Seachar</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] [Ethos] ETHOS Discussion aboutdecentalized
stove efforts</div></div></div>
<div> </div></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Ranyee,<br><br>Thanks for that very open and
affirmative reply. The "and" makes a great
difference. <br><br>Could you or others at GACC give some
outline of what might be "different types of tailored support" that could reach
those who are active in DEcentalized approaches to production.
<br><br>Note from me: It is possible that funding for decentralized
approaches might favor those decentralized approaches that can somehow work
together or be mutually beneficial. <br><br>I would like to
suggest that some funding might be made available that collectively assists
cooperating (but not identical) decentralized efforts to produce (and
disseminate) the<u> micro-gasifier stoves </u>that can perform at acceptable
levels on the several criteria for stove approvals (the Tier
system). Those interested in this (including discussing what
constitutes sufficiently "decentralized" efforts) should gather at some
session.<br><br>Or ALSO we organize ourselves to meet at some hours to
discuss this. SO, I propose that those interested could gather
RATHER INFORMALLY (but with purpose) promptly after the Friday evening
social/informational gathering. Usually ends about 9 or 9:30 PM so
we could get a little start on this topic.<br><br>I will be there for that
initial meeting about support for decentralized production of TLUD or other
micro-gasifier stoves. <br><br>Here on the Listservs we can discuss
this. Such as stoves that have sophisticated parts (like forced air)
are not included in the "decentralized" group. (this can be
discussed) . <br><br>Anyone interested in joining me, please make
yourself known. <br><br>Because Paal Wendelbo has already told us
that he will not be attending ETHOS, he is encouraged to participate via email,
and have his stove efforts included in the candidates and examples of
decentralized cookstove efforts. Others in that
situation? Or who want to be producing some design in a
decentralized manner?<br><br>Paul<br><pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com/">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>On
1/8/2014 8:22 AM, Ranyee Chiang wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote cite="mid:e22d8403718044bb8631513d6ef3b6ab@BL2PR08MB162.namprd08.prod.outlook.com" type="cite"><pre wrap="">Interesting topics for further discussion at ETHOS. A good way to frame this discussion may be to think about ways that the different types of efforts can be integrated together, or how they can learn from each other. Certainly from the Global Alliance's point of view, both types of efforts are important and require different types of tailored support. It would be useful to hear some discussion about the specifics of the tailored support that is needed in each case. And overall, I think that a discussion focused "and" not "versus" would be quite interesting.
Cheers,
Ranyee
________________________________________
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ethos-bounces@vrac.iastate.edu">ethos-bounces@vrac.iastate.edu</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ethos-bounces@vrac.iastate.edu">mailto:ethos-bounces@vrac.iastate.edu</a> on behalf of Paul Anderson <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 3:33 PM
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves; ETHOS - Listserve
Subject: Re: [Ethos] [Stoves] ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stove efforts
Ben,
Please provide more info about that suggestion/recommendation. When was
it, and to whom? Any viable contacts that could be reached for further
clarification?
In general, the decentralized elements are not "organized" and have far
fewer funds. Much of it is lobbying and money to get decisions that
favor those who can lobby and have the money already. Because that is
not likely to change, what strategies are possible for decentralized
efforts even in relatively small geographic areas?
Paul
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com/">www.drtlud.com</a>
On 12/31/2013 8:51 PM, Ben Blevins wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite"><pre wrap="">Deloitte contractors suggested decentralized for various reasons, there consulting was rejected because the finding did not reinforce the message of mass production and distribution by development industry players.
B
On Dec 31, 2013, at 6:34 PM, Paul Anderson <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu</a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite"><pre wrap="">Dear Paal, and all,
As much as I can agree with Paal's statements, but I think the cards are stacked against the success of decentralized efforts.
The issue that Paal raises about the need to have decentralized production of stoves (and fuels) is a touchy topic because the "model" of the affluent world is for centralized industrial production. That centralized model is certainly a cornerstone of the GACC and WB and many who feel that the model of the affluent world will work to resolve major issues in the developing world. And they control access to most of the funding. And they present very convincing arguments. (If they could not, they would not be in control of the situation.)
It would be good to have some examples of decentralized efforts having major impacts. Maybe the spread of the Kenyan ceramic jiko (KCJ) is one example.
I will be at ETHOS and willing for such discussions if others step forward wanting to discuss this informally as an ad hoc sub-group.
Paul
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com/">www.drtlud.com</a>
On 12/31/2013 10:15 AM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:paaw@online.no">paaw@online.no</a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite"><pre wrap="">On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 08:12:54 -0700,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite"><pre wrap="">Due to health and age it will not be possible for me to participate, but after 30 years working with task and followed the discussion at Stove list I have come to this conclusion.
There has to be a discussion at ETHOS about centralized or decentralized activities regarding fuel and stove production with a view on the enormous unemployment in developing countries. Taken into consideration the high demands of clean combustion, pellets will be the future biomass fuel for simple clean burning such as TLUD ND and FD. Energy forestry and agriculture energy production together collection of waste biomass of different types will give a lot of new needed jobs.
· Registration of local waste combustible biomass.
· Use of local resources
· Biochar production by cooking.
That will be the best way for GACC Stove program to support the low income groups all around the worl
Best regards Paal Wendelbo <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:paaw@online.no">paaw@online.no</a>
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