<html><head><base href="x-msg://7/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Dear Otto et al decentralists,<div> </div><div>I though of creating a matrix to describe how the decentralised approach works , then I though of gathering everyones opinion on it and publishing a book on it which I would of course need to distribute from my growing corporate headquarters due to its success and economies of scale etc etc....Then…</div><div> But wait a minute where does that lead to ?</div><div>Its both a blessing and the curse of those disparate souls favoring working close to the ground that if we were to organise we become the very thing we resist eh?</div><div><br></div><div>Richard Stanley</div><div><br><div><div>On Jan 11, 2014, at 4:18 AM, Otto Formo wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div class="hmmessage" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; "><div dir="ltr">Dear Paal,<br> <br>I think mr. Grinnell means us, People whom have been staying and living in Africa for more than a decade.....................<br>Some people think and seriously means, that "Development work" has a glance of some kind of a "romance", linked to a good potion of naivity.<br>Just like any other "beliver".<br> <br>May be they are correct, but let them be strong in their faith of Centralsation and lets us try to convince others that there are quite a few different paths on the way to succeed.<br> <br>Kindly<br> <br>Otto F.<br> <br><div><hr id="stopSpelling">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:paaw@online.no">paaw@online.no</a><br>To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2014 10:38:37 +0100<br>Subject: Re: [Stoves] [Ethos] ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stoveefforts<br><br><div dir="ltr"><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri; font-size: 12pt; "><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 10pt; margin-left: 0cm; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 13pt; "><span lang="EN-US"><font style="font-size: 11pt; ">Richard Gr.</font></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 10pt; margin-left: 0cm; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 22pt; "><span lang="EN-US"><font style="font-size: 11pt; ">With ref. to your mail of 10.01, could you please explain the words “<i>others that are more "romantic" approach</i>” in this context. It will be of interest for the further discussion.</font></span></p><p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-bottom: 10pt; margin-left: 0cm; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 13pt; "><span lang="EN-US"><font style="font-size: 11pt; ">Regards Paal W</font></span></p><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri; font-size: small; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; text-decoration: none; display: inline; "><div style="font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal tahoma; "><div> </div><div style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 245); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><div><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="richard.grinnell@gmail.com" href="mailto:richard.grinnell@gmail.com">Richard Grinnell</a></div><div><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, January 03, 2014 4:57 PM</div><div><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="ethos@vrac.iastate.edu" href="mailto:ethos@vrac.iastate.edu">ethos@vrac.iastate.edu</a></div><div><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</a></div><div><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Stoves] [Ethos] ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stoveefforts</div></div></div><div> </div></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri; font-size: small; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; text-decoration: none; display: inline; "><div dir="ltr">All,<div> </div><div>This can be a great topic for discussion and I see many points of view that are valid and others that are more "romantic" in approach. I have believed that the best approach is mixed between centralized and decentralized, depending on the level of technology available, knowledge, biomass production potential for fuel, etc. </div><div> </div><div>See you all at ETHOS!</div><div> </div><div>Richard</div></div><div class="ecxgmail_extra"><br><br><div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Paul Anderson<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br><blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; ">Ben,<br><br>Please provide more info about that suggestion/recommendation. When was<br>it, and to whom? Any viable contacts that could be reached for further<br>clarification?<br><br>In general, the decentralized elements are not "organized" and have far<br>fewer funds. Much of it is lobbying and money to get decisions that<br>favor those who can lobby and have the money already. Because that is<br>not likely to change, what strategies are possible for decentralized<br>efforts even in relatively small geographic areas?<br><br>Paul<br><br>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD<br>Email: <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><br>Skype: paultlud Phone:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a><br>Website: <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a><br><br>On 12/31/2013 8:51 PM, Ben Blevins wrote:<br>> Deloitte contractors suggested decentralized for various reasons, there consulting was rejected because the finding did not reinforce the message of mass production and distribution by development industry players.<br>><br>> B<br>><br>><br>> On Dec 31, 2013, at 6:34 PM, Paul Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>> wrote:<br>><br>>> Dear Paal, and all,<br>>><br>>> As much as I can agree with Paal's statements, but I think the cards are stacked against the success of decentralized efforts.<br>>><br>>> The issue that Paal raises about the need to have decentralized production of stoves (and fuels) is a touchy topic because the "model" of the affluent world is for centralized industrial production. That centralized model is certainly a cornerstone of the GACC and WB and many who feel that the model of the affluent world will work to resolve major issues in the developing world. And they control access to most of the funding. And they present very convincing arguments. (If they could not, they would not be in control of the situation.)<br>>><br>>> It would be good to have some examples of decentralized efforts having major impacts. Maybe the spread of the Kenyan ceramic jiko (KCJ) is one example.<br>>><br>>> I will be at ETHOS and willing for such discussions if others step forward wanting to discuss this informally as an ad hoc sub-group.<br>>><br>>> Paul<br>>><br>>> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD<br>>> Email: <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><br>>> Skype: paultlud Phone:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a><br>>> Website: <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a><br>>><br>>> On 12/31/2013 10:15 AM,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:paaw@online.no">paaw@online.no</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br>>>> On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 08:12:54 -0700,<br>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br>>>><br>>>>> Due to health and age it will not be possible for me to participate, but after 30 years working with task and followed the discussion at Stove list I have come to this conclusion.<br>>>>><br>>>>> There has to be a discussion at ETHOS about centralized or decentralized activities regarding fuel and stove production with a view on the enormous unemployment in developing countries. Taken into consideration the high demands of clean combustion, pellets will be the future biomass fuel for simple clean burning such as TLUD ND and FD. Energy forestry and agriculture energy production together collection of waste biomass of different types will give a lot of new needed jobs.<br>>>>><br>>>>> · Registration of local waste combustible biomass.<br>>>>><br>>>>> · Use of local resources<br>>>>><br>>>>> · Biochar production by cooking.<br>>>>><br>>>>> That will be the best way for GACC Stove program to support the low income groups all around the worl<br>>>>><br>>>>> Best regards Paal Wendelbo<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:paaw@online.no">paaw@online.no</a><br>>>> _______________________________________________<br>>>> Stoves mailing list<br>>>><br>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>>>><br>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>>>><br>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>>>><br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> Stoves mailing list<br>>><br>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>>><br>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>>><br>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>>><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Stoves mailing list<br>><br>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>><br>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>><br>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Ethos mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Ethos@vrac.iastate.edu">Ethos@vrac.iastate.edu</a><br><a href="http://cannon-mail.vrac.iastate.edu/mailman/listinfo/ethos" target="_blank">http://cannon-mail.vrac.iastate.edu/mailman/listinfo/ethos</a><br></blockquote></div><div> </div></div><hr>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a 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