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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear all,<br>
<br>
First, I will thank Michael for his reply.<br>
<br>
Second, I will exclaim my shock that NOBODY ELSE made any reply.
What does that tell us?<br>
<br>
"Silence means consent." That would mean that you all agree with
me, and with Crispin. Sir Thomas Moore used that argument, and
then they chopped off his head. <br>
<br>
Or maybe you are waiting until ETHOS to bring up the issues?<br>
<br>
Or maybe you are in such profound disagreement that you are in
shock that someone would suggest that the standard WBT might not
be sufficient?<br>
<br>
Or maybe you just want this topic to disappear?<br>
<br>
Anyway, ETHOS is virtually upon us; many start their travel within
a day from now. Let's hope that some discussion, whether in
agreement or disagreement, can be heard there AND on the Listserv.
<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 1/20/2014 12:10 AM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:d.michael.shafer@gmail.com">d.michael.shafer@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAOoKntdX9JSFmXXtBuc_+58hEdSNYeCrr-Tz4UrAzcm7dKFD3g@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Amen.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is a wonderful, specific statement of a general
problem that has plagued the stove "movement" for a long time.
If you haven't sat next to the woman in her own kitchen and
cooked with her, you don't know diddly about cook stoves and
anything you do in the arena might as well be shooting in the
wood smoke.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>M<br>
<img moz-do-not-send="true"
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<br>
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<p style="margin:0"><span
style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12px;color:#808080;outline:#808080
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style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;color:#808080;outline:#808080
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Director , Warm Heart</span><br
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<div class="gmail_extra">
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 8:02 PM, Paul
Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>Stovers,<br>
<br>
The snip below from Crispin raises good questions that
should be discussed, at ETHOS and on the Listserv and at
the testing centers:<br>
On 1/15/2014 3:29 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-US"></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d" lang="EN-US"></span>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">There
are so many sectors of the stove market that we
should prepare appliances for and it is good to
be reminded now and then that the local use to
which a stove might be put could be very much
unlike ‘cooking’.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">In
Indonesia people routinely have 4 or 5 different
cooking devices which they use when they are
preparing ‘that food’, just like I do at home.
Each one can be called a stove, but they are
specialised, really, and do something things
really well that he others do not.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">Cecil
Cook in his investigations last year into the
use of fuels and stove found people in Central
Java (where is about to be launched an improved
stove rollout) were very adept at picking
particular fuels for certain purposes, as well
as using multiple stoves during any month. Come
fuels were used only for high power and some for
keeping a fire <i>just</i> going for a long
time. </span></p>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Basically, a stove (any stove) should be tested in
relation to its intended and highly likely use. <br>
<br>
This testing should NOT be the only testing. Certainly
testing with accepted standard test procedures should be
INCLUDED so that stoves can be compared, especially if the
stove is to be for "general" cooking practices, not the
specialized ones such as those of the Indonesian cooks.
<br>
<br>
But standard testing should NOT be the only testing if a
stove has a special purpose, such as boiling water for
drinking (nobody simmers their drinking water!!!)<br>
<br>
Without BOTH types of testing, the stove APPROVERS would
only be able to judge according to the standard results.<br>
<br>
By saying "approvers" I am referring to:<br>
<br>
A. the guardians of the Tier system based on only the
complete tests<br>
<br>
and <br>
<br>
B. The actual cooks who could quickly reject an "approved
stove for general usage" when they know very well that a
NOT-APPROVED stove does their specific cooking task so
much better.<br>
<br>
A or B. Make your choice. Or perhaps the guardians of
"A" should include tests (or separate REPORTED results)
specific to some very common types of cooking, such as
boiling water, or high-heat frying, or just the simmer
part (which can be accomplished very well by a smaller
version of many of our stoves).<br>
<br>
Essentially, if these important specifics are not
provided, much of the system of stove testing with the
standard WBT will be ignored.<br>
<br>
Or worse, the standard WBT results could mean that
favoritism for some stove manufacturers (for funding and
for Tier qualification) could result is the reduced
availability (or even banning) of some excellent stoves
that serve important but specific tasks.<br>
<br>
I hope this is discussed at ETHOS, on the Listserv, and
beyond.<br>
<br>
Paul (in Tanzania, on Saturday at an Adventist
facility, so sort of like a day off in order to catch up.
But I will go to villages tomorrow, and then home in time
for ETHOS and the Aprovecho Open House.)<br>
<br>
<br>
<pre cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a>
Website: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
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